Muslims

[captainff]

not any living thing....just prophets and God...

Its done that way becuase your not supposed to be visuallising an image of god to pray to. Like the older religions with statues of gods and such. God, and Mohammad in particular.

Most holy people in Islam shouldnt be drawn or symbolized.

Thank you for the clarification. Can I ask another?

If I don't follow Islam why is it offensive to you if I, or anyone else for that matter, draw a likeness of Mohammed or God? Do you find it as offensive if I drink alcohol (also prohibited)? If so, why?

 

[ottoman]

i wouldnt find it offensive if you drink alchohol, or smoke or do drugs. thats your life, your problems. It wouldnt offnd any muslim.

However drawing OUR god and OUR prophet would offend us. its not your job to do so. its nones job. by doing so your basically insulting our entire religion.

 

[Brawny]

Too bad atheist have nothing they hold dear to them as much as us and our religions.....They're all just lukewarm.....

Hm....tis like me drawing your girlfriend nude??? I dunno....

 

[ottoman]

yes brawny i suppose you could put it that way haha

 

[Scrup]

The Muslim reaction to the cartoon was much worse than the cartoon itself.

 

[ottoman]

The Muslim reaction to the cartoon was much worse than the cartoon itself.

shutup, your opinions are no longer valued here, nor anywhere else on the forum.

 

[captainff]

i wouldnt find it offensive if you drink alchohol, or smoke or do drugs. thats your life, your problems. It wouldnt offnd any muslim.

However drawing OUR god and OUR prophet would offend us. its not your job to do so. its nones job. by doing so your basically insulting our entire religion.

Why? The prohibition on drawing is for you, not for me. If I draw a picture of money, or a bird, or the sea, or your girlfriend in the nude (Brawny's idea) it is just a drawing that I have created. Why is a drawing of Mohammed so offensive? What differentiates that drawing from the others that offends you so much? Why should I,as a non-Muslim, be bound by some of the tenets of your faith but not others?

Please remember that these questions that I ask are not intended to wind you up but to try to create a discussion that will lead to improved understanding. If I don't understand your answers I will continue to ask so that I can.. .. ..

 

[Brawny]

Er....You will never understand.... If I said I had sex with your mom last night, would you be offended? It isn't against MY beliefs, so why should you care? THAT is what you are saying. Why should I as a non-your mom's kid be bound to YOUR code of ethics?

 

[captainff]

Er....You will never understand.... If I said I had sex with your mom last night, would you be offended? It isn't against MY beliefs, so why should you care? THAT is what you are saying. Why should I as a non-your mom's kid be bound to YOUR code of ethics?

upset at your sexual preferences as my mum has been dead for two years but not offended.

I'm not asking you to be bound by my code of ethics or my beliefs, but you are asking that of me. I want to know why that is? Why should I be limited in my actions because of your beliefs?
I am limited by the laws of the country I live in. Last time I checked the drawing of any person wasn't against UK law.

 

[Scrup]

shutup, your opinions are no longer valued here, nor anywhere else on the forum.

wow, thats mature

 

[Brawny]

When did it go from offense to law?

"What differentiates that drawing from the others that offends you so much?"

Jesus (to me) as well as Muhammad/Allah are more important. There is nothing that is as sacred as them to you, an atheist (or at least some thing like it). That is why it is hard to explain.

 

[Squall7]

I think the media has overblown this issue. It was shown explicitly that the picture is offensive. Some countries showed the picture to "tell people what all the fuss is about".

In actuality, I don't think it's right to place our own expectations or ideals on anyone else. To that respect, we cannot say that because we tolerate a satirical use of our own (Christianity's and Judiasm's) religious beliefs, does not mean we should expect everyone to react the same.

If you go up to a stranger and start annoying them with them as butts of your jokes, do you still expect them to laugh along willingly? Only satirise and have fun with people who you know will take it in a friendly way. The fact that the west holds soo much Islamophobia of late, and then to show those cartoons only goes to propogate a divide between us and Islam.

Also, Scrup, if you're not going to contribute to the discussion in an intelligent manner, why should anyone take you seriously. You're not exactly being polite, you should not expect people to treat you otherwise.

Why should I be limited in my actions because of your beliefs?
I am limited by the laws of the country I live in. Last time I checked the drawing of any person wasn't against UK law.

Where does the line between personal freedom and the freedom to hate lie? This is the paradox that the world lives in. What is freedom for? Personal exploration or rights to invasion?

I believe that people should be able to think what they like as long as it doesn't hurt another. Those pictures went against Muslim's religious beliefs. In essence, it hurt them.

 

[captainff]

When did it go from offense to law?

"What differentiates that drawing from the others that offends you so much?"

Jesus (to me) as well as Muhammad/Allah are more important. There is nothing that is as sacred as them to you, an atheist (or at least some thing like it). That is why it is hard to explain.

Discordian, actually. But that is quite tricky to explain so 'agnostic' is sufficient for the time being.

The point that I was trying to make is that I am bound by the laws of the country I live in, I am not bound by the constraints of your religion.
You said

Er....You will never understand.... If I said I had sex with your mom last night, would you be offended? It isn't against MY beliefs, so why should you care? THAT is what you are saying. Why should I as a non-your mom's kid be bound to YOUR code of ethics?

Drawings of Mohammed are not against my beliefs. Using your argument, why should YOU care? You are asking me to limit my actions so that I do not offend your beliefs. I think that in effect you are trying to force your belief system template over my life, a situation that I am unhappy with.

In actuality, I don't think it's right to place our own expectations or ideals on anyone else. To that respect, we cannot say that because we tolerate a satirical use of our own (Christianity's and Judiasm's) religious beliefs, does not mean we should expect everyone to react the same.

I agree with this statement but it creates an internal conflict for me. Am I wrong for placing my ideals on other people, ie freedom of expression, or are they wrong for placing their ideals on me ie prohibiting certain drawings? This question cannot be answered simply.

I believe that people should be able to think what they like as long as it doesn't hurt another. Those pictures went against Muslim's religious beliefs. In essence, it hurt them.

I think that you may have been taking my comments slightly out of context. I was referring to drawings of Mohammed in general, NOT the inflammatory ones published in Denmark. They were intentionally inflammatory which I don't support.

 

[Brawny]

Why would you try to draw Muhammad if it wasn't inflammatory and you weren't muslim? meh.

 

[captainff]

Why would you try to draw Muhammad if it wasn't inflammatory and you weren't muslim? meh.

That assumes that everyone who isn't a Muslim is automatically hostile to Muslims, which is patently untrue.

Remember where I started with this? A simple, serious question. I'm trying to understand what it is that makes it so wrong. I understand that for you it is a religious conviction and I can accept that. I don't understand why you are trying to enforce your convictions on non-believers. I don't follow Islam, and probably never will (although I reserve the right to change my mind at any time), but you are asking me to comply with some aspects of your belief system.

Ottoman said it was ok for me to drink alcohol (thanks), which you are not allowed to do as a Muslim, yet I can't create an image of Mohammed. Why the distinction between certain prohibited things?

What is it that makes it so offensive? By this, once again, I mean in a general sense and not for those images that made out all Mulims are terrorists.