Muslims

[zeon9881]

Just some advice: proofread your posts before you reply, it makes you look a lot less like a 9 year old

cause your a noob im going easy on you.....yes i know my wrightings bad so what?just cause you don get somewords dosn't really mean you don understand my sentences.

and go right ahead right your paragraph

either me ,ottoman,brawny,RPG will answer it

 

[Scrup]

now we now your ignorent .....

This great quote from Zeon would go nicely in your signature Brawny

 

[zeon9881]

either me ,ottoman,brawny,RPG will answer it

which part of that don't you get

and even if he posts it in their hes just trying to improve his sig.....i mean he dosn't mean anything other then being funny....and i have yet to see that paragraph

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Thats why I hate Islam, they'll kill you if you dont convert.....Dont see any other religons doing that

What a great opportunity for you to say that after you heard that! Look how ignorant you are, nobody said anything about Muslims killing you to convert--that is AGAINST the religion. The Mahdi (which I have to do some research on myself) will not simply just kill those who do not accept Islam...as this goes against Islamic teachings altogether. What an excuse to reveal your true feelings--and your true feelings are clearly marked by ignorance.

Let me clear my statement up a little better. Right now its those crazy extremeists who follow Islam killing in the name of Allah. Not your average muslim. When I said Mahdi and executions was in the clash with the Dajjal and maybe earlier before, only time will tell.

 

[Scrup]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18176156/

 

[Skorp]

Let me start by saying that I am also Muslim. I read the entire first page wanting to say so much but eight more pages would take a while to read. Let me post my thoughts for now and I'll read the rest after.

To Ottoman

It is a great idea to bring discussion of religion into a forum. It is something important to everyone's life and should be discussed. It is as people have said and you acknowledged when you started a topic that brings about heated discussion. If you are going to start such discussion you should be first and foremost someone who sets a calm and peaceful tone for such discussion. You should be open and you should leave pride and arrogance at the door.

Islam preaches tolerance and acceptance and peace. It seems you are aware of this. If you wish that your religion be seen in the proper light it would be wise of you to be the perfect model for what a muslim should be. Calling people who are uneducated or ignorant of something foolish and idiotic does not make you look smart and it casts your religion in a bad light. I apologize to those you have berated and ask that they not judge a religion based on one person's desire to start arguments. In the future Ottomon, please be more civil with such discussions, don't try so hard to create arguments. Lastly remember that when you discuss something differing opinions are expected. Arguments should draw opposing arguments and your reasons for your belief. If all you are doing is insulting the other person you have failed to educate them and done more harm than good.

To Wii_Smurf

I apologize for the way Ottomon has been addressing your arguments about immigration. I can totally understand how it might upset you that alot of muslims are immigrating to your country. I only ask that you keep separate your dislike for this issue and your dislike for a religion. Immigration has nothing to do with religion, only a person desiring a better quality of life.

Being born and living it Britain it might be easy for you to be nationalistic and wish that others didn't enter "your domain" but you have to realize that not everyone was born into a country they love and which treats them well. Immigration in all forms is simply people hoping to get a better life for themselves. Yes people who immigrate and then set off bombs are simply sickening, but most people who are immigrating are doing so for a better life. See it through their eyes and maybe you'll be a little more excepting. I definately understand that too much immigration is also bad for jobs in the country and such things. But in the end this is a discussion about religion and your views on a religion shouldn't be fuelled by anger towards immigrants, I hope it is not.

People in america have similar views towards Mexican immigrants. They dislike the group due to the fact that they are entering our country illegally, taking jobs and such. But it is important to understand they are simply seeking a better life for themselves. Immigration is definately an issue and I definately don't think everyone should be allowed to enter, but hating immigrants as a group gets nobody anywhere.

Islam in the Middle East

Islam is a religion which preaches peace to the point where everyone greets each other by saying "Peace be upon you". As those who have taken the time to learn about it understand, Islam is very much against terrorism. Islam unfortunately is a religion that is easy to get carried away with and not find balance in. It can be easy to become extreme in your belief because the nature of it is very different to many things in the western world. This makes it hard at times to co-exist with the western world. It is also this nature that allows people in the middle east to warp it to their anti-west agenda. Muslims in the middle east need to take more of their knowledge of religion from the quran than from their culture. This is similar to many christians knowing most of their religion from holidays such as Easter or Christmas and not really taking the time to read and understand the bible. I agree the middle east has issues, I ask that you form your opinion on the religion of islam from going to the sources like the Quran (english copies should be easy to attain) and not from what you hear about the middle east from the media.

On headscarves and women's clothing

The Quran asks women to be modest. It asks that they cover themselves in the company of men so that they are not drawing unwanted attention. The exact guidelines are not the same as you may see women wearing in the Middle East. The Middle East tends to exaggerate this and alot of what is seen in the Media is due to cultural influences.

Now hopefully I can make it through eight more pages without needing to post my thoughts.

 

[Skorp]

EDIT: was answering a question that was already answered so no reason to say it again.

 

[Skorp]

Ok, lets put it this way. Are Muslims SUPPOSED to hate Christians? And ottoman, do you hate ME, because I'm a Christian?

The Quran often uses Jewish and Christian history or events to teach lessons. Saying Jews or Christians did this, don't do that, do this instead. Someone non-muslim reading this could easily take it as a directive to dislike said groups. This is not correct however, as Muslims are tought to respect other religions and other people's beliefs. That said there are also those muslims who read these verses and take them the wrong way. As Squall explained well, you always get the entire spectrum of views and opinions.

I got to page 6, I gotta study for exams tomorrow and friday so I'll get back to this when I can. (Apologies for double posting, it was easier to just hit "Quote user" on earlier pages than copy and paste and do the tags and everything)

EDIT: Ok, I finally got through all of it. It's very easy to tell who is versed in religion and who needs to explore that area a little more. Props to RPG for being persistent and not making the debate personal. I hope Ottoman can learn from RPG's replies.

I_Don't_Know, its really cool that you've taken the time to read up and learn about Islam. I find alot of people are very interested in the Dajjal. If you have specific questions hopefully we can discuss them further and maybe we can both learn from it.

Squall7, I have gained alot of respect for you reading all your posts. Very logical and it is obvious you are mature and very knowledgable. Thanks for all your input.

I also think Loose Cannon contributed positively, but I think she stopped posting here now.

As far as 9/11 goes, I don't know how much I agree that Bush or the government was behind it but there are definately some holes in the official story that I find disturbing.

Lastly people throw around the word ignorant way too much in these discussions. It does no good to anyone to label someone as such. You either agree and elaborate, or disagree and clarify. Otherwise you're adding very little to the discussion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18176156/

This kind of stuff saddens me. Firstly because it shows how misguided some muslims are and secondly makes me understand why people have the wrong idea about islam, and sometimes nobody is the blame but muslims. On a positive note is shows the importance that threads like these have and the reason they are necessary. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Scrup and believe that you are already aware that the actions of the misguided shouldn't be what represents the actual religion, albeit I agree there are scores of misguided as there are with all religions.

 

[ottoman]

ive noticed that the main thing that people view when they think of Islam, is the misunderstood "quotes" taken from the Qur'an. The quotes are taken out of context, to benefit the opinion of the person who extracted it from the Qur'an.

For example, heres one i ran into earlier...

"Think not that i have come to spread peace on earth, i came not to spread peace but a sword"

Does that sound Violent to you? we dont know the sentence before that, or the sentence after it...does it sound like its been taken out of context?

No thats not from the Qur'an....thats from the Bible...

Matthew 10 -34

See you can pull that trick in any religion.

Dont judge a Religion on a few misguided followers, judge it from its teachings.

 

[Brawny]

Exactly (ottoman)....Too bad people understand that about Islam and not Christianity...

 

[Skorp]

ive noticed that the main thing that people view when they think of Islam, is the misunderstood "quotes" taken from the Qur'an. The quotes are taken out of context, to benefit the opinion of the person who extracted it from the Qur'an.

For example, heres one i ran into earlier...

"Think not that i have come to spread peace on earth, i came not to spread peace but a sword"

Does that sound Violent to you? we dont know the sentence before that, or the sentence after it...does it sound like its been taken out of context?

No thats not from the Qur'an....thats from the Bible...

Matthew 10 -34

See you can pull that trick in any religion.

Dont judge a Religion on a few misguided followers, judge it from its teachings.

Someone already posted that quote Ottoman, but I agree, misquoting happens alot.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

Welcome back, Ottoman! And welcome to this thread, Skorp! Actually, Ottoman, I've been gone for just about as long as you were. This week is tech week (hell week) for musical practice. I get back home from school at around 3:20, then gotta be back at school at 5:00, which is about 20 minutes away and I get home by 12:00 A.M (yes, this means that play practice this week runs for over 6 hours each day this week, making it 24 hours all together these past 4 days). Despite all this, we got majorly flooded from all the rain...making everything much harder for everything. After about 4 or five days, we are finally recovering from the flood and able to live in our own house for now--we need to fix the heat, however. It's 4:02 right now in New Jersey, and I gotta get ready for school...today, tomorrow and Sunday are our shows finally. I will input some more information later, as I have to go now and get ready.

BTW... I play five different parts in the musical, which is called "Gypsy".

 

[zeon9881]

huh im confused

 

[ottoman]

wow, thats tough masterturk...good luck!

Now back on topic....

 

[wii_cammy]

Heyyyy
not much to say in this thread anymore

just shut up making fun o pl cos they are different
that about sums up what i want to say