Muslims

[Nitram]

I've only read the first page of this topic, I don't know what has been said, but I figured I'd post my feelings on this anyway.


I'll tell you right now what the big problem with religion is.

Religion is just an early form of goverment, a way to unite people under the same ideals and goals. To guide people who need help or can't think for themselves. We are taught from birth by religious leaders that religion is infalable. Even though some religions teach to be tollerent of other religions, we are still told it is the one religion. We are tought to seek out help from our religion for all answers. This type of mentality helps assure the survival of a religion. But it is also religion's greatest fault. Since you have millions of people who are taught from birth that their religion is absolutely correct. You have millions of people who look to their religious leaders like they speak the word of god/gods whatever you believe in. And throughout history, it has been pruven time and again that religious and political leaders take advantage of this to rally people together, in hate of other races/religions for personal, and pollitical gains. And often enough, this leads to war. This is why religion is dying. People are realising what it always leads to. Because we are finally begining to socially evolve to the point where we won't need religion anymore. And when society matures enough to function on it's own, without religion, the world will be, a much more peacefull place.



don't believe me? I know this is corny, but just look at bush. He talks about god, all the time, in the goal to justify his war. I forgot his name but bush also has a friend who is a preacher and he preaches in church, in support of the war, and people cheer him on in church???!!!! how can people not see the wrong in that is totally beyond me. Ignorance is the greatest sin a man can make. And there is plenty of it when it comes to religion.


And I'm not just saying this for christians. Musmlim terrorists use the same tacticts. They use their religion to rally people together in support of the war. This is a pitty. Because the muslim religion is one of the most peacefull and loving religions I have ever seen.


Yes religion has done alot for us, it can still do more. But it is also one of the greatest evils we have yet to encounter.

some people might reply to this and say
"Religion is not evil, people are"


but I say to you!

Religion is not good, people are.

The sooner we realise that religion is not responsible for everything good that happens in the world, the sooner we can get on with our social evolution, and leave religion behind.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

I've only read the first page of this topic, I don't know what has been said, but I figured I'd post my feelings on this anyway.


I'll tell you right now what the big problem with religion is.

Religion is just an early form of goverment, a way to unite people under the same ideals and goals. To guide people who need help or can't think for themselves. We are taught from birth by religious leaders that religion is infalable. Even though some religions teach to be tollerent of other religions, we are still told it is the one religion. We are tought to seek out help from our religion for all answers. This type of mentality helps assure the survival of a religion. But it is also religion's greatest fault. Since you have millions of people who are taught from birth that their religion is absolutely correct. You have millions of people who look to their religious leaders like they speak the word of god/gods whatever you believe in. And throughout history, it has been pruven time and again that religious and political leaders take advantage of this to rally people together, in hate of other races/religions for personal, and pollitical gains. And often enough, this leads to war. This is why religion is dying. People are realising what it always leads to. Because we are finally begining to socially evolve to the point where we won't need religion anymore. And when society matures enough to function on it's own, without religion, the world will be, a much more peacefull place.



don't believe me? I know this is corny, but just look at bush. He talks about god, all the time, in the goal to justify his war. I forgot his name but bush also has a friend who is a preacher and he preaches in church, in support of the war, and people cheer him on in church???!!!! how can people not see the wrong in that is totally beyond me. Ignorance is the greatest sin a man can make. And there is plenty of it when it comes to religion.


And I'm not just saying this for christians. Musmlim terrorists use the same tacticts. They use their religion to rally people together in support of the war. This is a pitty. Because the muslim religion is one of the most peacefull and loving religions I have ever seen.


Yes religion has done alot for us, it can still do more. But it is also one of the greatest evils we have yet to encounter.

some people might reply to this and say
"Religion is not evil, people are"

but I say to you!

Religion is not good, people are.

The sooner we realise that religion is not responsible for everything good that happens in the world, the sooner we can get on with our social evolution, and leave religion behind.

I enjoyed reading your post very much...and I see your point. I also like the fact that what you write is not driven by sheer ignorance and that your message was not bias due to this. Like when you classified a simple matter--that a religion can be most peaceful when practiced right--but can turn into a bloody war when extremist actions from the people OF that religion take place. You can make points from this point on and criticize (constructively) a religion and expect to get responses once ignorance is out of the way. Otherwise, you will just be saying things that don't make sense and show your great lack of knoweledge.

But religion is not strictly meant to just gather people and bring about peace through the ways that religion offers it. It's not just about believing in a God. If people think that everyone is here as a test from God, then they will follow that religion as the true way of life. They will use religion as a way of avoiding hell and entering heaven, as they believe their religion is the true way of life and this is what God wants from everyone. You can't just say "take away religion and end all problems", because people will not take away their religion, even if they know it will cause eternal peace to the world. Everyone will always have a religion, even if the majority of the population will become aethiests. With a small percentage of theists, even more of a problem could occur and extremest actions would take place. You can't take away your religion if you believe it is right spiritually. Then if the majority (aethiests) find out that this whole religionless world causes actually less peace and more war, would they not fight for obtaining a religion as a way of obtaining peace and order within a nation? Of course, they wouldn't be too faithful or sincere about their religion, because they just converted due to the fact that it will cause more peace and sincerity of the religion itself would be difficult. You could say you are part of this religion, but not feel anything.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

Great post!

It's a shame that some others haven't realised this.

I was taught at school that presentation was a key factor in how you are perceived by others. In this electronic meeting we only have the text we type for others to make judgements on who and how we are. Smilies don't really help - they are there to soften the blow of what we say.

As I have read through this thread I have been saddened, shocked and surprised. Some people have used it as a racist, seperatist rant rather than an opportunity to listen and learn.

If you think that that comment applies to you then why are you still reading this thread? Go and find another thread to post on.

Thanks! You actually replied to a couple of my posts since i scattered them here and there ut:. However, what do you mean by "
If you think that that comment applies to you then why are you still reading this thread? Go and find another thread to post on", and who were you directing that too? Was it to the general baddies of this thread? lol :devil:

 

[MetroidZ]

lol thanks...that makes me feel good about myself . That's always a good feeling, and its not so common that it happens (I'm not saying it rarely comes either though lol).

Yeah...I've always been questioning things when i was younger and matured very quickly and adapted to how people do things and really how a human brain functions and why they do certain things, what drives them to do it (interestingly enough, I don't mean this in a deep philisophical manner...I just expect things when they happen and what we humans react to as a society)--the concept of many things--and took great interest in it. It amazes me how people in school do not like my morals and values--I am truly a nice kid and people take advantage of that. I assure you that I'm not mentally retarted, nor do I look extremely ugly, nor am I obese, or anything else highly unnattractive for them to think such ways about me (these are not reasons why people do not like me). However, when i type things here, and people don't see my face, theres something that doesn't drive people here to be "mean". When you actually see someone, its much easier to judge a book by its cover. But when you only see this person through use of words and text, those kinds of things are cancelled out and you cannot judge that person based on physical things. It seems that everyone respects and enjoys reading what i write here due to the fact that physical appearance and other possible features are ignored, and what comes from the heart is viewed rather than the physical nature of the person. In addition, i feel that we take it too much for granted that we were not born fat, or fat parents or grandparents, and turned out the "handsome" ways we were born with. Because i feel this way, i choose not to make fun of those who are considered unnatractive due to these "physical features". I don't take it for granted that I'm fairly skinny, i understand the true feelings of others and consider everything. In other words, people just aren't thankful for the way they turned out--but rather ignore the fact that they could've been born "ugly", and only care to make fun of those who were almost destined to that lifestyle (AKA not their choice or fault, therefore making fun of them does not make sense). Meh I drifted on again...hope you understood all that.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

lol i should fix it up and space it out more so that when someone sees a long passage, they don't just assume its boring and skip it. Afterall, i myself hate reading books (I wish I loved reading books, as it poses many benefits), but reading what people have to say is never boring to me. Being able to respond in real-time and communicate with people is when I love to read and write. I assure you its interesting, despite the fact it is long (I hope that came out right). Here it is, fixed up:

lol thanks...that makes me feel good about myself . That's always a good feeling, and its not so common that it happens (I'm not saying it rarely comes either though lol).

Yeah...I've always been questioning things when i was younger and matured very quickly and adapted to how people do things and really how a human brain functions and why they do certain things, what drives them to do it (interestingly enough, I don't mean this in a deep philisophical manner...I just expect things when they happen and what we humans react to as a society)--the concept of many things--and took great interest in it. It amazes me how people in school do not like my morals and values, do not even respect it--I am truly a nice kid and people take advantage of that. I assure you that I'm not mentally retarted, nor do I look extremely ugly, nor am I obese, or anything else highly unnattractive for them to think such ways about me (these are not reasons why people do not like me). However, when i type things here, and people don't see my face, theres something that doesn't drive people here to be "mean". When you actually see someone, its much easier to judge a book by its cover. But when you only see this person through use of words and text, those kinds of things are cancelled out and you cannot judge that person based on physical things.

It seems that everyone respects and enjoys reading what i write here due to the fact that physical appearance and other possible features are ignored, and what comes from the heart is viewed rather than the physical nature of the person.

In addition, i feel that we take it too much for granted that we were not born fat, or fat parents or grandparents, and turned out the "handsome" or "pretty" ways we were born with. Because i feel this way, i choose not to make fun of those who are considered unnatractive due to these "physical features". I don't take it for granted that I'm fairly skinny, i understand the true feelings of others and consider everything. In other words, people just aren't thankful for the way they turned out--but rather ignore the fact that they could've been born "ugly", and only care to make fun of those who were almost destined to that lifestyle (AKA not their choice or fault, therefore making fun of them does not make sense). Meh I drifted on again...hope you understood all that.

Watch him be like "Still didn't read it..." But i just made it better for everyone, since he's probably not the only person who thought that way when they saw this post.

 

[Nitram]

I enjoyed reading your post very much...and I see your point. I also like the fact that what you write is not driven by sheer ignorance and that your message was not bias due to this. Like when you classified a simple matter--that a religion can be most peaceful when practiced right--but can turn into a bloody war when extremist actions from the people OF that religion take place. You can make points from this point on and criticize (constructively) a religion and expect to get responses once ignorance is out of the way. Otherwise, you will just be saying things that don't make sense and show your great lack of knoweledge.

But religion is not strictly meant to just gather people and bring about peace through the ways that religion offers it. It's not just about believing in a God. If people think that everyone is here as a test from God, then they will follow that religion as the true way of life. They will use religion as a way of avoiding hell and entering heaven, as they believe their religion is the true way of life and this is what God wants from everyone. You can't just say "take away religion and end all problems", because people will not take away their religion, even if they know it will cause eternal peace to the world. Everyone will always have a religion, even if the majority of the population will become aethiests. With a small percentage of theists, even more of a problem could occur and extremest actions would take place. You can't take away your religion if you believe it is right spiritually. Then if the majority (aethiests) find out that this whole religionless world causes actually less peace and more war, would they not fight for obtaining a religion as a way of obtaining peace and order within a nation? Of course, they wouldn't be too faithful or sincere about their religion, because they just converted due to the fact that it will cause more peace and sincerity of the religion itself would be difficult. You could say you are part of this religion, but not feel anything.

oh I totaly agree that now is not the time to get rid of religion. We are nowhere near the point where we are evolved/matured socially enough for our society to take it. Right now, religion is deffinately essential. But ultimately in the end, if our race matures... will we need it? my opinion is no... but that's just me :smilewinkgrin:


and thank you for saying you enjoyed my post! It means alot to me

 

[Yellow_Wii]

this only has tro do with religion but this man today was an auful salesman

he said these words

'helping your neighbour will not get you to heaven'

'praying will not get you to heaven'

'going to church will not get you to heaven'

'but buying this £1 novelty watch will'

 

[MetroidZ]

lol i should fix it up and space it out more so that when someone sees a long passage, they don't just assume its boring and skip it. Afterall, i myself hate reading books (I wish I loved reading books, as it poses many benefits), but reading what people have to say is never boring to me. Being able to respond in real-time and communicate with people is when I love to read and write. I assure you its interesting, despite the fact it is long (I hope that came out right). Here it is, fixed up:

lol thanks...that makes me feel good about myself . That's always a good feeling, and its not so common that it happens (I'm not saying it rarely comes either though lol).

Yeah...I've always been questioning things when i was younger and matured very quickly and adapted to how people do things and really how a human brain functions and why they do certain things, what drives them to do it (interestingly enough, I don't mean this in a deep philisophical manner...I just expect things when they happen and what we humans react to as a society)--the concept of many things--and took great interest in it. It amazes me how people in school do not like my morals and values, do not even respect it--I am truly a nice kid and people take advantage of that. I assure you that I'm not mentally retarted, nor do I look extremely ugly, nor am I obese, or anything else highly unnattractive for them to think such ways about me (these are not reasons why people do not like me). However, when i type things here, and people don't see my face, theres something that doesn't drive people here to be "mean". When you actually see someone, its much easier to judge a book by its cover. But when you only see this person through use of words and text, those kinds of things are cancelled out and you cannot judge that person based on physical things.

It seems that everyone respects and enjoys reading what i write here due to the fact that physical appearance and other possible features are ignored, and what comes from the heart is viewed rather than the physical nature of the person.

In addition, i feel that we take it too much for granted that we were not born fat, or fat parents or grandparents, and turned out the "handsome" or "pretty" ways we were born with. Because i feel this way, i choose not to make fun of those who are considered unnatractive due to these "physical features". I don't take it for granted that I'm fairly skinny, i understand the true feelings of others and consider everything. In other words, people just aren't thankful for the way they turned out--but rather ignore the fact that they could've been born "ugly", and only care to make fun of those who were almost destined to that lifestyle (AKA not their choice or fault, therefore making fun of them does not make sense). Meh I drifted on again...hope you understood all that.

Watch him be like "Still didn't read it..." But i just made it better for everyone, since he's probably not the only person who thought that way when they saw this post.

indeed

 

[En4Neo]

Not all Muslims are like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TqTKBI1ImTw

Not all Christians are like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e647x8xFKTs

I think that sums it up.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

oh I totaly agree that now is not the time to get rid of religion. We are nowhere near the point where we are evolved/matured socially enough for our society to take it. Right now, religion is deffinately essential. But ultimately in the end, if our race matures... will we need it? my opinion is no... but that's just me :smilewinkgrin:


and thank you for saying you enjoyed my post! It means alot to me

Responding and peacefully debating over this makes this all truly enjoyable. With ignorance out of the way, we can go about debating.

However...as i said in my previous post, and am building on it now, religion is not just something used for peace. Religion is not simply a proposal method of THAT religions way of peace, and if people don't follow their thoughts on how peace would come about, they will fight them. This is not the case, as religion isn't something we look at and say "yea, I'm feeling religous today...I'm gonna pray because it can pose many benefits and make me feel better". It's not like we NEED religion to maintain peace and order--theists believe that there is truth in their religion, that God set this world up as a test to see whether or not we would be tricked by the devil and so on. There is a right way of going about with your life, the way God wants us to do it, and you would be punished if your bad sins outweighed your good sins, for the most part. It's kinda hard to explain...but im gonna say it again, a religion is not simly a proposal of peace--a religion's method of forming peace within the human race is not all a religion does. Do you get what I'm trying to say?:crazy:

 

[no1cubehead]

i've read about 5 pages from the start with wii_smurf in and i know exactly what he means, maybe it's because he lives close to me but he has a point.

A muslim lady came into the country as a teacher for primary school kids and decided to wear a veil (or whatever it's called) which completely covered her in black (except for her eyes), who would let 5 year olds be taught by somebody when they cant even their face.Of course, this was in newspapers but she said that it was racist! it's not even part of her religion.

to the person who said england isnt very good:

house prices are going up, there's going to be a lack of jobs, the nhs is going to have to help people coming into the country, leaving people who live here with nothing , children are growing up hearing about 9/11, 7/7 the soldiers that got captured a few weeks ago and other things of course they're going to be racist and aggressive.


Injured soldiers are being asked to take their uniform off incase they offend muslims. They are doing a good deed and yet they are told to do things like that.



That's why England is so racist it's not the religion, its like wii_smurf said it's because they're coming into our country ruining our chances.


and im sorry if i offended anybody




EDIT: there were some people who got blown up by iran aswell (one of them was a family members close friend

 

[zeon9881]

i've read about 5 pages from the start with wii_smurf in and i know exactly what he means, maybe it's because he lives close to me but he has a point.

A muslim lady came into the country as a teacher for primary school kids and decided to wear a veil (or whatever it's called) which completely covered her in black (except for her eyes), who would let 5 year olds be taught by somebody when they cant even their face.Of course, this was in newspapers but she said that it was racist! it's not even part of her religion.

to the person who said england isnt very good:

house prices are going up, there's going to be a lack of jobs, the nhs is going to have to help people coming into the country, leaving people who live here with nothing , children are growing up hearing about 9/11, 7/7 the soldiers that got captured a few weeks ago and other things of course they're going to be racist and aggressive.


Injured soldiers are being asked to take their uniform off incase they offend muslims. They are doing a good deed and yet they are told to do things like that.



That's why England is so racist it's not the religion, its like wii_smurf said it's because they're coming into our country ruining our chances.


and im sorry if i offended anybody

what do you mean its not part of her religeon >.< its in the newspapers media taked things out of context and makes a new (and false) thing.like the time when they took a sentence out of the quran and sid islam is built on violence guess what they didnt even finish the sentence they took the sentence from the middle and left the first and last part out...im gonna say this AGAIN media takes things out of context and even if she said it not in her religeon why would she be wearing.dont just read think before you proceed

watch this http://youtube.com/watch?v=VqmMdPKw378

 

[no1cubehead]

i need drivers for my soundcard (which i dont know the name of) before i can listen to music and videos so i can't watch it.sorry.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

what do you mean its not part of her religeon >.< its in the newspapers media taked things out of context and makes a new (and false) thing.like the time when they took a sentence out of the quran and sid islam is built on violence guess what they didnt even finish the sentence they took the sentence from the middle and left the first and last part out...im gonna say this AGAIN media takes things out of context and even if she said it not in her religeon why would she be wearing.dont just read think before you proceed

watch this http://youtube.com/watch?v=VqmMdPKw378

lol nice you're spreading the video i was showing before :cornut:

 

[captainff]

Thanks! You actually replied to a couple of my posts since i scattered them here and there ut:. However, what do you mean by "
If you think that that comment applies to you then why are you still reading this thread? Go and find another thread to post on", and who were you directing that too? Was it to the general baddies of this thread? lol :devil:

When I said

If you think that that comment applies to you then why are you still reading this thread? Go and find another thread to post on.

I was aiming it at anyone who thought that

Some people have used it as a racist, seperatist rant rather than an opportunity to listen and learn.

was meant for them. If the cap fits, and all that.......

I've read nearly every word written here and I've tried to understand all of the points of view expressed. I am struggling to understand some people's desire to display their ignorance in such a public way. Not just of each others religion but also of how they are manipulated by their 'leaders'. This applies to both sides of this discussion.

Prior to starting the 'War On Terror' George Bush said repeatedly
"you're either with us or you're with the terrorists".

READ THAT STATEMENT AGAIN.

"You're either with us or you're with the terrorists"

Really?

Can't I choose to condemn both groups for killing people?


Back to religion for a moment. I personally think that you are ALL misguided in your faith. Sorry to offend, but that's what I think. And it is just that. What I think.

There are no hard proofs that any cult is the true path to heaven. NO, THERE ARE NOT. Stop deluding yourself. It is only your BELIEF.

However, I would defend your right to follow your religion until doing so infringes on the rights of others to do the same ( so no 'kill all wii owners' religions allowed. sorry).