What's your pokemon team?

[The Storm]

Eh... Maybe I will go with Heatran.... Possibly.... What if I used Aerodactyl? Not as much of a defensemen, but hes certainly fast.

 

[Splash_King]

Aero is fast, but he's just another (somewhat weak) physical attacker. The type of moves he covers are already covered by the rest of your team. I can't say I'm not (doublenegativelol) trying to get you to use Heatran, but he really does add something this team could highly benefit from. ... Not to mention Aero won't be taking fire hits anytime soon, with his pathetic defenses.

 

[The Storm]

Hmmm... What about Omastar or Kabutops? They only take 25% of fire moves, along with adding defense to the team.

 

[Splash_King]

Omastar and Kabutops are cursed with terrible typing, mostly bad stats, and in the case of OU, just aren't worthy. Using them is almost like having dead weight, Storm. >.>; Not to mention you'll have a 3x grass weakness, two of those being 4x.

The reason to use Heatran isn't just a Fire immunity. It's the ability to take advantage of that fire immunity, be fast using a choice scarf, have a movepool that is different from the rest of your team, and to be a powerful special attacker even with a scarf.

 

[The Storm]

No chance for Shuckle? Gliscor? Something along those lines? No TTar?

 

[Splash_King]

TTar screws you over by increasing a bunch of your weaknesses, especially grass and fighting. You've already got Hippowdon too. Shuckle is a wall, not a special attacker. Gliscor is also a wall, not a special attacker, and should also be excluded for many reasons along the lines of TTar.

Why are you resisting Heatran so much? Your team practically needs it.

 

[The Storm]

Eh... bc I dont use legendaries. I just dont. Pet peeve of mine, I suppose...

 

[Splash_King]

If I can't change your mind, can you atleast elaborate why? ... I really don't want to hear terrible reasoning, though. .-.

Also see post where not using legendaries=fail competitive battler. DX

 

[The Storm]

lol. Ok, reasoning why.

I dont like using legendaries bc there stats are always already great without even paying regard to nature. They are also so common among battlers, it gets tiresome seeing the same thing over and over again. Not to mention that they are almost always way stronger than average pokes. The way I see it is that utilizing legendaries in battleing, competetive or not, is an unfair advantage. To me, its like using wobbufett.

 

[WuddlePook]

lol. Ok, reasoning why.

I dont like using legendaries bc there stats are always already great without even paying regard to nature. They are also so common among battlers, it gets tiresome seeing the same thing over and over again. Not to mention that they are almost always way stronger than average pokes. The way I see it is that utilizing legendaries in battleing, competetive or not, is an unfair advantage. To me, its like using wobbufett.

I have the pleasure of dissecting this into a ridiculously long post.
Please note any examples I use will be considering only legendaries allowed in standard play. So nothing in the Uber tier.

I dont like using legendaries bc there stats are always already great without even paying regard to nature.

To be honest, absolutely nothing can be great if you don't have a suitable nature. A lead Jirachi needs that +speed nature. You can't run the anti lead set with a -speed nature, otherwise you won't even hit the magic speed number (308) for it. A Pokemon like Latias absolutely cannot even consider running a -speed nature, since such a variety of Pokemon carry Ice/Dark/Dragon type attacks, if you risk the speed loss, you risk losing a valuable core player on the team.
Although those examples applies to more offensively built Pokemon, the same works with defensive legends. Suicune obviously doesn't want to run a -def. nature just as much as Celebi doesn't want to run a -def. nature. If absolutely anything runs a bad nature, it will always be a liability in battle.

Moving onto stats, honestly, I would like you to compare Tyranitar, Salamence, Dragonite, Metagross and Garchomp to legends like Zapdos, Celebi, Mesprit and Registeel. Do explain how legends have greater stats than nonlegends. If you start comparing Zapdos to something like Drapion, or Miltank, sure obviously legends are above average in that sense. But when you compare OU to OU, Tyranitar and Salamence has a base stat total of 600, along with Heatran, Celebi, Cresselia, etc.

Also somewhat related would be a Pokemons typing. Even if you have great stats, if your typing is bad, a Pokemon has a hard time. There's a reason why Articuno and Moltres aren't in OU, that's because taking 50% Stealth Rock damage hurts it so much it practically becomes unusable once rocks are on the field. We've seen how much Stealth Rocks neuter even non legends like Salamence, making it have a hard time. Legends are not immune from the hazards bad typing carries when you combine it with it's stats. Look at Regirock, great defenses, fairly good movepool, what's making it unusable? The fact that Surf, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, etc. absolutely hurts it. The fact that it can shrug off physical hits is great, but any special hit hurts it because it doesn't resist much of the special threats.

Summary :
-Various Pokemon have just as good stats as various non-uber legends. Tyranitar and Salamence have great stats just like Cresselia and Celebi.
-A Pokemons typing greatly influences it's usage, and even if a Pokemon has good stats, if it's typing is bad it's becomes harder to use. Such as Moltres and Regice.

They are also so common among battlers, it gets tiresome seeing the same thing over and over again.

I'm sure we can all agree here that the OU tier determines what is commonly seen in standard play. Going off that,
Zapdos / Suicune / Latias / Jirachi / Heatran / Cresselia / Celebi / Azelf are the legends which are in the OU tier (Unless I've missed something). Which means they're the most commonly seen legends based on a bigger population of players. I'll admit some of these are quite common, but you can't possibly say you've seen these guys more than Scizor, Gyarados, Salamence, Tyranitar, Metagross and Bronzong. I'm curious on who you battle, because in every match I've had to deal with the annoying as hell Scizor a lot more than I've dealt with Celebi and Zapdos.

Summary : I'm tired of seeing Scizor more than Suicune. lol

Not to mention that they are almost always way stronger than average pokes.

Huh? This kind of heads back to the stat argument, however...

Physically, Azelf, Jirachi, and Celebi are the only decent physical attackers. However, Azelf lacks a good physical movepool that running it would generally not be advantageous by any means, Celebi hardly has a physical movepool (Swords Dance Seed Bomb is about all it can do), leaving Jirachi who's still only hitting off 100 base, which isn't bad, but it can hit a lot harder on the special side to take advantage of Serene Grace.

None of the legends have a priority move in OU. Swords Dance Bullet Punch Technician Scizor is so strong, and has bulk to tag along with it. Azelf does not.

Specially is where most of these legends actually bother to do anything. Heatran, Azelf, and Latias all hitting really hard. Although there are other nonlegends which are just as strong, I would say legends being stronger special attack wise is the only agreeable mention.

The way I see it is that utilizing legendaries in battleing, competetive or not, is an unfair advantage.

The way I see it, if they weren't labeled as legends, this argument wouldn't even exist.

To me, its like using wobbufett.

Wobbufett is Wobufett. Wobbufett is banned from standard play, so using a Wobbuffett generally means you're playing in Ubers, which means that you're most likely using legends anyways.


Last notes - A lot of times, legends are made to do only one thing. If you see an Azelf, you can almost bet your life it's going to hit on the special side. If you see a Regirock, most likely you're not going to see it hit you with Hidden Power or whatever. But you can't really do that with Tyranitar who has a million different sets utilizing mixed offense, Salamence who almost always will hit you on both the physical and special side, etc.



Anyways, feel free to argue with my on this, the only argument I can think of is a nonexistant argument based solely on your opinion towards legends as a whole, which only go back to my point before-

The way I see it, if they weren't labeled as legends, this argument wouldn't even exist.

Also, at least give using legends a chance if you haven't already.

 

[Fox]

Really Storm, just give Heatran a shot. He'll actually make your team a Five-star force to be reconed with. =]
We wouldnt ALL feel so strongly about this if it wasnt something we all dealt with before and overcame.
I have only ever used a Suicune and a Moltres (I think) and, like Wuddle said, they aren't invincable at all. Moltres gets assraped by stealth rocks or any slightly powerfull attack actually.
Suicune is having a much better time due to his typing and bulk but I can never find a spot for him on my team. Heatran on the other hand, wants yours.


OR is your issue in obtaining a legent with the correct stats? 'Cuz I agree, that's a pain without AR but it's worth it IMO.

 

[The Storm]

@ Fox: No, thats not my problem. Like you said, it is difficult, but not the source of the problem. Also, I understand what your saying about Heatran, and I suppose if I must, I will give it a shot....

@ Wuddle: Good arguement. First, im not only talkin OU's. Doesnt make a huge difference but, just thought I would point it out. I looked through the tiers, ly hate the fact that nearly all of the Uber tier are legendaries.... Also, its true the legends you named arent the greatest Wuddle, but there are a vastly larger majority that are ridiculous, eg the Uber tier. I know Garchomps in it an stuff, but he is just great anyways. Idk, I suppose in the end it comes down to a pride thing. I dont like using legendaries, I look down on myself when I do. Bc I feel like, what have I really done? I just did what any other person could do? and its not like the legends have such great movepools that your not going to see the same set on the same legend over, and over, and over again.

I understand your point about overused common pokes, but thats what I try avoiding anyways. Like you even said, your much more likely to see the same sets on a legend nearly everytime than you are on something like Tyranitar or Salamence, who have wider options.

Like I said, in the end, its a pride thing. This one time, this ONE time I will put a legendary on my team. But there is .001 chance it will ever happen again. I really despise using legends and see them only as either collectors items or ridiculous gimps in battles. I am Leo Zodiac, and I stay true to it with my terrible pride... lol.

 

[Fox]

I've always said this, (and being an atheist, I hate using this word but) pride is an abomination and leads to the downfall of many men.
Glad you changed your mind. =]

If need be, he isnt the BEST but, I have an untouched Modest Heatran CK can clone for you (if that's OK with him) if you want for a specs set, which is what I recomend. I forgot his IVs but they arent bad.

 

[The Storm]

I appreciate it, but no thanks. If I absolutely have to use a legend, id rather it at least be my own. Ill run a specs set.

And yes, pride is the downfall of many, but I am a leo. Its in my nature, cant really do much to change it.

 

[Toon_Link]

Since I was a kid, I always wanted one of the Pokemon games so I could play with my friends but never got one. But, after years, I got my hands on Platinum.

My team right now:

Infernape - LV.74

Floatzul - LV. 50

Geritania - LV. 45

Right now I'm raising my Rulio so it can evolve to a Lucario.