Redreavus
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If I did play this on a Gen 5 game, what kind of held items would you recommend, assuming I used the same team as this?
What's your pokemon team?
- Thread starter Splash_King
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If I did play this on a Gen 5 game, what kind of held items would you recommend, assuming I used the same team as this?
Espmaster_
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Well, he'd probably reccomend the gems, for starters, considering he's already specifically mentioned them. Unless there's some other, better items that 5th gen introduced, at least.
OP
Splash_King
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Just Gems really, Gen 5 didn't introduce any other particularly potent held items... 'sides from Eviolite, but it ain't like your team can use such an item. Nor would it want to.
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Espmaster_
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I have actually given Infernape's Life Orb to Staraptor and given Infernape a Focus Sash instead. I'm probably going to re-breed Infernape anyways, as at lv. 75 neither of its attack stats are above 200. (Attack is 199, Sp. Attack is 187.)
I also randomly deleted Nasty Plot for Shadow Ball and gave Azelf Choice Specs, but this could be easily changed back if it doesn't work out.
The whole point of Magnet Rise was so that I could use Earthquake in Double Battles, but perhaps Substitute would be better anyway. As for underestimating the opponent's speed, I've had surprisingly little trouble with that, but you can never be too careful in Pokemon.
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Splash_King
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Ah, so that's why almost your entire team has a Ground immunity. :lol: Every Poke on your team with Earthquake is faster than Magnezone, so Magnet Rise might not be all-that worth it at times. It's obviously the better move for Doubles, whereas Substitute is wholly better in Singles.
Also, a suggestion: raise an entirely different team dedicated to Doubles. Ya don't have to considerin' four Ground immunities and two intimidate users already make this team more effective in Doubles than the average casual battler's Singles team,
Anyways, Specs Azelf works fine, although when Ubers are banned you'll be without a stat-up sweeper as a result of the item change. That aside, ya could consider usin' Explosion. Azelf's damn-good Attack stat makes it pose a threat even when it's one tap away from bein' knocked out with Explosion at the ready. Opposing Psychic-types should generally fear an Azelf without Shadow Ball anyways, as either Flamethrower or Grass Knot can deal with Pokes like Metagross or Slowbro whereas boosted Psychic will still wreck defensively-weak Pokes like Alakazam anyways. But t'is just somethin' to consider, as Shadow Ball is still definitely useful against plenty'a Ghost and Psychic types not hit by the other coverage moves. It's all a matter of your preferences.
Also, a suggestion: raise an entirely different team dedicated to Doubles. Ya don't have to considerin' four Ground immunities and two intimidate users already make this team more effective in Doubles than the average casual battler's Singles team,
Anyways, Specs Azelf works fine, although when Ubers are banned you'll be without a stat-up sweeper as a result of the item change. That aside, ya could consider usin' Explosion. Azelf's damn-good Attack stat makes it pose a threat even when it's one tap away from bein' knocked out with Explosion at the ready. Opposing Psychic-types should generally fear an Azelf without Shadow Ball anyways, as either Flamethrower or Grass Knot can deal with Pokes like Metagross or Slowbro whereas boosted Psychic will still wreck defensively-weak Pokes like Alakazam anyways. But t'is just somethin' to consider, as Shadow Ball is still definitely useful against plenty'a Ghost and Psychic types not hit by the other coverage moves. It's all a matter of your preferences.
Espmaster_
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So, should I make this my Doubles team and design a completely new Singles team?
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Splash_King
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Truth be told I'd recommend the inverse. Make a new Doubles team more focused on synergy beyond just spammin' Earthquake. Weather, quirky gimmicks, more complex (and therefore more effective) Doubles combos... try t' get crazy with it. Doubles is some damn-good fun 'cause you do far more than just run goodstuff and spam the most effective attack(s) mindlessly. Ya can pull off cool combos like Beat Up + Justified, Skill Swap nonsense, Water/Volt Absorb + Surf/Discharge, SwaggerBerry, etc. which're otherwise impossible in Singles.
Let your creativity get t' work.
Let your creativity get t' work.
Espmaster_
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Alright, here's a rouge sketch of a possible doubles team:
Slaking
-Earthquake
Uxie
-Skill Swap
Forretress
-Toxic Spikes
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake (‘cause why not?)
-Explosion
Gengar
-Stuff
Aerodactyl
-Earthquake
Zapdos
-Stuff
Slaking
-Earthquake
Uxie
-Skill Swap
Forretress
-Toxic Spikes
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake (‘cause why not?)
-Explosion
Gengar
-Stuff
Aerodactyl
-Earthquake
Zapdos
-Stuff
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH, what is with everyone? Why Skill Swap Slaking, when you can use Gastro Acid! Don't go and say, "it'll get a better ability" because you'll be left with that ability on a different pokemon, meaning you'll waste a turn on switch or live with the ability!
OP
Splash_King
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HAK has a valid point, actually. 'Less you use the Poke I'll suggest later in my post, Gastro Acid is better than Skill Swap in most-every situation.
Ya generally don't want defensive Pokes on a Doubles team, 'specially not a 'mon like Foretress. Battling two opposing Pokes at the same times means it's more likely at least one enemy can attack Physically and Specially. With this in mind, any Poke which isn't incredibly bulky for both defense stats is a poor choice for Doubles. Foretress' Special Defense is utter ****, so yeah. His Attack is lackluster too, so drop 'em. There're plenty of better Pokes for usin' Explosion, let me tell ya.
Oh, and since Doubles matches are a lot quicker due to the quicker offensive pacing, entry hazards like Stealth Rock 'n (T)Spikes are relatively useless. Stealth Rocks is still useful t' punish ubiquitous Flying-types lookin' to dodge the omnipresent EQ spam, but don't bother with the other two hazards.
On the note of fast offensive pacing, Uxie isn't that useful since while it is bulky with both defensive stats, there's little it can do 'sides support... or rather, it's not very useful without the right moveset. Reflect and Light Screen are really helpful in Doubles on top of usin' Skill Swap. I used t' use a really bulky Uxie (without a single damaging move) as a lead for my Trick Room Doubles team back in Gen 4, and I gotta say it worked wonders. Trick Room -> Screen Spam -> spread status via T-wave and Yawn is amazing. Yawn one foe and then either spam T-wave, waiting out the next two turns so I can Trick Room again, or switch to my other Trick Room Poke (Bronzong) and throw out a Gyro Ball 'fore I set up Trick Room once again.
... However, your team doesn't use Trick Room. I wouldn't recommend Uxie for any Doubles team besides a TR one, as there're better bulky status spreaders, better Screeners and better Skill Swappers. Instead, catch/clone another Azelf. Azelf learns Skill Swap and has one'a the best Explosions in the game. If it survives the turn after a success Skill Swap, Slaking can Protect while Azelf explodes and does massive damage t' everythin'. If Truant forces Azelf t' not move the very turn after ya use Skill Swap, Slaking can Earthquake in the mean time since it has Levitate.
The best thing 'bout this strategy is that you're not wasting a turn switchin' Azelf out. Instead, you're gettin' a HUGE amount of damage, a free switch, and a Slaking with bloody Levitate so any other team mates can come in and blast their own Earthquake. Ya might not like the idea of killin' off your Azelf, but Slaking will die pretty quickly since your opponents will focus on Slaking the turn your Skill Swap Poke can't do anything from Truant and the second turn you'll have t' switch it out to remove Truant... unless ya use Azelf and explode. Explosion lets you return the momentum to your favor and protect Slaking with... well, Protect lol. Protect + Explosion is an age-old Doubles combo too. And if Slaking faints before Azelf can Explode, you can still Explode safely since Gengar can take Slaking's place thanks to it's Normal-type immunity. Even better, if one'a the Pokes survive Azelf's Explosion, one Shadow Ball or super-effective move should remove whatever little amount'a HP they have left. Even longer ago than with my TR team, I myself used Azelf 'n Gengar as leads for a goodstuff Doubles Team to abuse Explosion. T'is a great combination.
Speakin' of Explosion, if what I said 'bout Forretress ain't enough t' dissuade ya from usin' it, it's one'a the worst users of Explosion for Doubles. Due to it's slothful Speed 'n pathetic Special Defense, it'l probably die 'fore it can Explode. 'Specially if you decide to spend even one turn settin' up hazards. It's easily dispatched by Special Attackers and can speedily Explode in a moment's notice like Azelf or Gengar can (speakin' of, feel free to put Explosion on Gengar too, even with it's **** attack it'l do high damage anyways... make sure plenty of your team knows Protect if ya do put Explosion on even one Poke). A Steel-type much more suited to Exploding would be Metagross, for example. It's the best slow exploder since it's bulky Physically and Specially, and can spam Earthquake/Meteor Mash for damage output until it's time for it t' go out with a bang.
Anyways, although Aerodactyl can avoid Earthquake and use it itself (making it a wonderful partner for Slaking @ Levitate), it's EQs only have 75 BP since moves hittin' multiple Pokes lose some base power. Rock Slide has the same BP and doesn't even hit your team mate, and can also flinch, so Rock Slide is actually a better move on it t' abuse than EQ. Ya might miss one outta two targets every once in awhile, but that flinch rate will more than make up for it. Unless 'Dactyl is KO'd instantly since it's defenses are garbage. Make sure it has an item that either pumps up it's Attack. I'd recommend King's Rock, but it doesn't increase Rock Slide's flinch rate.
Keep in mind that an Earthquake not coming from a Ground-type with a high attack stat like Rhyperior won't do enough damage t' outright KO things. If ya really want t' abuse Earthquake properly, you'll indeed want somethin' like Rhyperior. Not that I recommend that Poke in specific, as a team abusing Surf or just any random Water or Grass-type attack will wreck it's rocks (c wut i did thar?).
I'll also take the time t' mention Protect again. The move is invaluable in Doubles, 'specially if most of your team has it. If at any time you're insecure about what moves your opponent's Pokemon might know, you can double-Protect in order t' see if they have some strange move that would maul one'a your frailer Pokes like Aerodactyl super-effectively and switch out accordingly, savin' you some unexpected pain. Just don't spam such a strategy since a smart opponent might expect it after the second or third time and, if their Pokemon have support moves like the Screens or stat-up moves, may take advantage of you bein' predictable and get a free attack(s) in... or even worse, switch out to a better Poke.
Ya generally don't want defensive Pokes on a Doubles team, 'specially not a 'mon like Foretress. Battling two opposing Pokes at the same times means it's more likely at least one enemy can attack Physically and Specially. With this in mind, any Poke which isn't incredibly bulky for both defense stats is a poor choice for Doubles. Foretress' Special Defense is utter ****, so yeah. His Attack is lackluster too, so drop 'em. There're plenty of better Pokes for usin' Explosion, let me tell ya.
Oh, and since Doubles matches are a lot quicker due to the quicker offensive pacing, entry hazards like Stealth Rock 'n (T)Spikes are relatively useless. Stealth Rocks is still useful t' punish ubiquitous Flying-types lookin' to dodge the omnipresent EQ spam, but don't bother with the other two hazards.
On the note of fast offensive pacing, Uxie isn't that useful since while it is bulky with both defensive stats, there's little it can do 'sides support... or rather, it's not very useful without the right moveset. Reflect and Light Screen are really helpful in Doubles on top of usin' Skill Swap. I used t' use a really bulky Uxie (without a single damaging move) as a lead for my Trick Room Doubles team back in Gen 4, and I gotta say it worked wonders. Trick Room -> Screen Spam -> spread status via T-wave and Yawn is amazing. Yawn one foe and then either spam T-wave, waiting out the next two turns so I can Trick Room again, or switch to my other Trick Room Poke (Bronzong) and throw out a Gyro Ball 'fore I set up Trick Room once again.
... However, your team doesn't use Trick Room. I wouldn't recommend Uxie for any Doubles team besides a TR one, as there're better bulky status spreaders, better Screeners and better Skill Swappers. Instead, catch/clone another Azelf. Azelf learns Skill Swap and has one'a the best Explosions in the game. If it survives the turn after a success Skill Swap, Slaking can Protect while Azelf explodes and does massive damage t' everythin'. If Truant forces Azelf t' not move the very turn after ya use Skill Swap, Slaking can Earthquake in the mean time since it has Levitate.
The best thing 'bout this strategy is that you're not wasting a turn switchin' Azelf out. Instead, you're gettin' a HUGE amount of damage, a free switch, and a Slaking with bloody Levitate so any other team mates can come in and blast their own Earthquake. Ya might not like the idea of killin' off your Azelf, but Slaking will die pretty quickly since your opponents will focus on Slaking the turn your Skill Swap Poke can't do anything from Truant and the second turn you'll have t' switch it out to remove Truant... unless ya use Azelf and explode. Explosion lets you return the momentum to your favor and protect Slaking with... well, Protect lol. Protect + Explosion is an age-old Doubles combo too. And if Slaking faints before Azelf can Explode, you can still Explode safely since Gengar can take Slaking's place thanks to it's Normal-type immunity. Even better, if one'a the Pokes survive Azelf's Explosion, one Shadow Ball or super-effective move should remove whatever little amount'a HP they have left. Even longer ago than with my TR team, I myself used Azelf 'n Gengar as leads for a goodstuff Doubles Team to abuse Explosion. T'is a great combination.
Speakin' of Explosion, if what I said 'bout Forretress ain't enough t' dissuade ya from usin' it, it's one'a the worst users of Explosion for Doubles. Due to it's slothful Speed 'n pathetic Special Defense, it'l probably die 'fore it can Explode. 'Specially if you decide to spend even one turn settin' up hazards. It's easily dispatched by Special Attackers and can speedily Explode in a moment's notice like Azelf or Gengar can (speakin' of, feel free to put Explosion on Gengar too, even with it's **** attack it'l do high damage anyways... make sure plenty of your team knows Protect if ya do put Explosion on even one Poke). A Steel-type much more suited to Exploding would be Metagross, for example. It's the best slow exploder since it's bulky Physically and Specially, and can spam Earthquake/Meteor Mash for damage output until it's time for it t' go out with a bang.
Anyways, although Aerodactyl can avoid Earthquake and use it itself (making it a wonderful partner for Slaking @ Levitate), it's EQs only have 75 BP since moves hittin' multiple Pokes lose some base power. Rock Slide has the same BP and doesn't even hit your team mate, and can also flinch, so Rock Slide is actually a better move on it t' abuse than EQ. Ya might miss one outta two targets every once in awhile, but that flinch rate will more than make up for it. Unless 'Dactyl is KO'd instantly since it's defenses are garbage. Make sure it has an item that either pumps up it's Attack. I'd recommend King's Rock, but it doesn't increase Rock Slide's flinch rate.
Keep in mind that an Earthquake not coming from a Ground-type with a high attack stat like Rhyperior won't do enough damage t' outright KO things. If ya really want t' abuse Earthquake properly, you'll indeed want somethin' like Rhyperior. Not that I recommend that Poke in specific, as a team abusing Surf or just any random Water or Grass-type attack will wreck it's rocks (c wut i did thar?).
I'll also take the time t' mention Protect again. The move is invaluable in Doubles, 'specially if most of your team has it. If at any time you're insecure about what moves your opponent's Pokemon might know, you can double-Protect in order t' see if they have some strange move that would maul one'a your frailer Pokes like Aerodactyl super-effectively and switch out accordingly, savin' you some unexpected pain. Just don't spam such a strategy since a smart opponent might expect it after the second or third time and, if their Pokemon have support moves like the Screens or stat-up moves, may take advantage of you bein' predictable and get a free attack(s) in... or even worse, switch out to a better Poke.
Espmaster_
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Darn it, forgot about the existance of Gastro Acid.
The whole point of Forretress was for entry hazards, not to wall. But I guess it'll be easy to stick Stealth Rocks on something else, so okay then.
So, I could just stick Stealth Rock onto the new Azelf and do that, or would that take too long? I can probably do without Forretress now, the only real reason I thought of it was because I've been looking for an excuse to use it for ages, but I'll put it on some Single Battle team in another game or something.
But what to fill the missing slot with? I guess I could stick the same Gyarados from my Singles team onto there, but I'm not sure how effective it would be in a Double Battle. Intimidate sounds like a great thing to have, though, and it helps out my spam Earthquake forever strategy, so unless there's some obvious reason not to use it, I'll put it on there for now.
I considered filling it with a Flash Fire/Volt Absorb Pokemon to accompany Zapdos, but I couldn't think of one that would work that well with the rest of my team.
The whole point of Forretress was for entry hazards, not to wall. But I guess it'll be easy to stick Stealth Rocks on something else, so okay then.
So, I could just stick Stealth Rock onto the new Azelf and do that, or would that take too long? I can probably do without Forretress now, the only real reason I thought of it was because I've been looking for an excuse to use it for ages, but I'll put it on some Single Battle team in another game or something.
But what to fill the missing slot with? I guess I could stick the same Gyarados from my Singles team onto there, but I'm not sure how effective it would be in a Double Battle. Intimidate sounds like a great thing to have, though, and it helps out my spam Earthquake forever strategy, so unless there's some obvious reason not to use it, I'll put it on there for now.
I considered filling it with a Flash Fire/Volt Absorb Pokemon to accompany Zapdos, but I couldn't think of one that would work that well with the rest of my team.
Slaking
-Earthquake
-Protect
-Return
-
Azelf
-Skill Swap
-Stealth Rock
-Explosion
-Psychic
Gengar
-Shadow Ball
-
-
-
Aerodactyl
-Rock Slide
-
-
-
Zapdos
-Thunderbolt
-Heat Wave
-Protect
-
Gyarados
-Waterfall
-Avalanche
-Earthquake
-Payback
-Earthquake
-Protect
-Return
-
Azelf
-Skill Swap
-Stealth Rock
-Explosion
-Psychic
Gengar
-Shadow Ball
-
-
-
Aerodactyl
-Rock Slide
-
-
-
Zapdos
-Thunderbolt
-Heat Wave
-Protect
-
Gyarados
-Waterfall
-Avalanche
-Earthquake
-Payback
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Splash_King
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Azelf definitely won't have the time t' set up Rocks. You want it t' use Skill Swap and then explode literally the turn after, usin' coverage moves only if you were forced to switch it out 'cause Azelf's Explosion would be wasted (i.e. your opponent has two Pokes resisting/immune to Explosion). Don't be too concerned with fittin' Stealth Rock in. It ain't worth the moveslot on any Poke unless there's literally nothin' else that'd be useful, as it ain't all-that useful in Doubles anyways.
Gyarados works fine since Intimidate is grand.
Heat Wave only hits the opponent's Pokemon.
Normally I hate to suggest specific Pokes, but... Garchomp is quite literally Zapdos' perfect partner. Zapdos is immune t' Earthquake and Garchomp is immune to Discharge. One attacks Physically, the other Specially. Neither is weak to Earthquake or Surf, and the only issue they share is a severe disadvantage against Hail teams aiming t' spam Blizzard, which ain't exactly the most common strategy.
Gyarados works fine since Intimidate is grand.
Heat Wave only hits the opponent's Pokemon.
Normally I hate to suggest specific Pokes, but... Garchomp is quite literally Zapdos' perfect partner. Zapdos is immune t' Earthquake and Garchomp is immune to Discharge. One attacks Physically, the other Specially. Neither is weak to Earthquake or Surf, and the only issue they share is a severe disadvantage against Hail teams aiming t' spam Blizzard, which ain't exactly the most common strategy.
lucktown
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I now finaly start making my team and I'm not sure what ev's and natures I should give them, so please tell me and correct my choice in nature and I forgot to mention and ask for the items. You can also tell me what I should change when I make the same in gen 5 or when an attack choice is horrible.
Torterra probably with adamant nature and no item yet
-Wood Hammer
-Synthesis
-Earthquake
-Crunch
Lucario no idea what to take since it is a mixed set, so I don't want to lower an attack or special attack stat and I'm not sure what other stat I should drop insted or if I should keep it neutral... no item yet
-Close Combat
-Ice Punch
-Psychic
-Dark Pulse
Milotic probably with bold nature and Left Overs
-Surf
-Hypnosis
-Toxic
-Recover
Dragonite probably with adamant nature and no item yet
-Roost
-Outrage
-Dragon Dance
-*insert good flying move/something different here*/
Ampharos probably with bold nature and no item yet
-Rest
-Discharg
-Thunder
-Sleep Talk
Blaziken probably adamant and no idea for the item (would be nice if you help with the moveset here) (I think it's uber in gen5 if it has speed boost, so I will to think of an replacement at some point)
-Flare Blitz/Blaze Kick
-Brave Bird
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance
Torterra probably with adamant nature and no item yet
-Wood Hammer
-Synthesis
-Earthquake
-Crunch
Lucario no idea what to take since it is a mixed set, so I don't want to lower an attack or special attack stat and I'm not sure what other stat I should drop insted or if I should keep it neutral... no item yet
-Close Combat
-Ice Punch
-Psychic
-Dark Pulse
Milotic probably with bold nature and Left Overs
-Surf
-Hypnosis
-Toxic
-Recover
Dragonite probably with adamant nature and no item yet
-Roost
-Outrage
-Dragon Dance
-*insert good flying move/something different here*/
Ampharos probably with bold nature and no item yet
-Rest
-Discharg
-Thunder
-Sleep Talk
Blaziken probably adamant and no idea for the item (would be nice if you help with the moveset here) (I think it's uber in gen5 if it has speed boost, so I will to think of an replacement at some point)
-Flare Blitz/Blaze Kick
-Brave Bird
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance
Thank you
.Aerodactyl has seen resent play because of me using it in the VGC 2012. I got through to the quater's that year
. But I couldn't go this year .lucktown said:
No offence to your choice but... Ampharos is probably the WORST electric type to put in any team.
Please for the love of ( Kyogre ) replace it with a Jolteon with my move set.
Jolteon : Electric Gem
Item : Air Ballon
Thunder Bolt ( or Discharge if in double battle, place with Torterra )
Shadow Ball
Signal Beam ( hard to get but worth it
)Protect / Substitute ( your preference )
Also, ubers is just a rule for noobs and people who can't think of a counter.
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