The Post-Game Thread (now with moar games!)

[Tragonight]

First of all, do not send dragons out until your opponent's Azumarill is dead.

Obviously. You should never send out Dragons until you've eliminated all of your opponent's Fairies, or else you're basically screwed.

Second, never switch out on an Azumarill unless you are switching to a Scizor or something with a strong priority move.

Switching out on Azumarill gives it a free turn to Belly Drum and then spam Aqua Jet. I've never let this happen before. I always try to get its HP down on the initial Belly Drum so it will either fail or I can counter with priority/Water-resistant Pokemon to finish it off. Leftovers and dual Fairy-typing just makes this more difficult.

Thirdly, don't try to status it. Burning it hardly helps, unless it's pared with the sun. Toxic might kill it but it will still trash your team. Paralyzing doesn't help unless you get parahax, Azumarill is already slow. 4thly, use the sun if you have it, don't use the rain if you have it.

I don't rely on status much lol. Toxic is the only notable status, but unless you have some extremely bulky Poison-type that resists Water and Fighting as well, it's hard to stall for Poison damage. Not even continuous Protect is that efficient, Leftovers recovers partial Poison damage and it can still Aqua Jet you to death. Paralyzing is a bad idea because Aqua Jet gets priority and it basically kills everything it doesn't resist. It kills things that resist Water too, but I won't go into that.

Why am I telling all of you, how to beat my Azumarill?

I just think that, all in all, Azumarill is a huge threat and I don't blame my friend for thinking it's Uber. Well, he didn't say exactly that is was Uber, he just said "BANNED" really loudly and emphasized it. Maybe it's my bias against having to face against the same Azumarill in 9/10 of all of my Pokemon battles, I don't know. I hate it.

EDIT: You also didn't really tell me how to beat Azumarill, you told me what not to do. That list can go on for a while.

 

[WiiAssasin]

Hydra died thanks to that steep dune letting me get close while it lunged at me. Dragon's up next.

 

[Mr. MR]

Obviously. You should never send out Dragons until you've eliminated all of your opponent's Fairies, or else you're basically screwed.

Not true
A multiscale Dragonite laughs at fairies that aren't Azumarill and Mega Mawile.

Switching out on Azumarill gives it a free turn to Belly Drum and then spam Aqua Jet. I've never let this happen before. I always try to get its HP down on the initial Belly Drum so it will either fail or I can counter with priority/Water-resistant Pokemon to finish it off. Leftovers and dual Fairy-typing just makes this more difficult.

I actually have a Sitrus Berry on my Azumarill. So even if you knock him down below half, he gets back up over half and laughs at you as he Belly Drums. If you want to counter Azumarill, you should run a Scizor or a Mega Venusaur.

I don't rely on status much lol. Toxic is the only notable status, but unless you have some extremely bulky Poison-type that resists Water and Fighting as well, it's hard to stall for Poison damage. Not even continuous Protect is that efficient, Leftovers recovers partial Poison damage and it can still Aqua Jet you to death. Paralyzing is a bad idea because Aqua Jet gets priority and it basically kills everything it doesn't resist. It kills things that resist Water too, but I won't go into that.

If it resists water hard, then it's going to use it's base 50 speed to hit you with either Play Rough or Super Power. Use the low speed to your advantage and kill it before it kills you. And that's what I said (talking about the Paralyzing).

Let me educate you in what Burn does. It lowers attack by 50%.

I just think that, all in all, Azumarill is a huge threat and I don't blame my friend for thinking it's Uber. Well, he didn't say exactly that is was Uber, he just said "BANNED" really loudly and emphasized it. Maybe it's my bias against having to face against the same Azumarill in 9/10 of all of my Pokemon battles, I don't know. I hate it.

Because you don't know how to deal with it.

EDIT: You also didn't really tell me how to beat Azumarill, you told me what not to do. That list can go on for a while.

Knowing what not to do is extremely important. I also told you to use powerful Priority moves to counter it.

 

[Tragonight]

Not true
A multiscale Dragonite laughs at fairies that aren't Azumarill and Mega Mawile.

Multiscale Dragonite laughs at almost everything that can kill it. And it laughs even harder against things that can't.

I actually have a Sitrus Berry on my Azumarill. So even if you knock him down below half, he gets back up over half and laughs at you as he Belly Drums. If you want to counter Azumarill, you should run a Scizor or a Mega Venusaur.

Not sure how viable a Sitrus Berry is on Azumarill, but it doesn't always activate. In the rare case where Azumarill will actually eat its Sitrus Berry, the HP regained isn't enough to help it much. People use Leftovers to slowly heal as you sweep with Aqua Jet once you Belly Drum. So even if the Pokemon that's left out against Azumarill manages to dent it, Leftovers will help make it survive a lot of revenge counter-switches. If Aqua Jet doesn't kill (even if resisted, I've seen it kill a lot), Leftovers will likely have healed Azumarill's HP back to ~50% and help it take super-effective attacks. Then you can just priority Aqua Jet again. Two is enough to kill most Water-resistant Pokemon, and even if they don't, STAB Play Rough / Superpower (depending if it is super-effective or not) on the first turn will.

If it resists water hard, then it's going to use it's base 50 speed to hit you with either Play Rough or Super Power. Use the low speed to your advantage and kill it before it kills you. And that's what I said (talking about the Paralyzing).

If you have a Pokemon that resists Water x4, then yes, I guess you could paralyze it. It can still be a waste of a turn if they choose to Play Rough / Superpower on the turn you paralyze it, and it actually carries through. I'd probably only paralyze an Azumarill if I feel lucky with paralysis hax. Uninvested base 50 is slow enough.

Let me educate you in what Burn does. It lowers attack by 50%.

Huge Power. +6 Aqua Jet still hits ridiculously hard for priority, hard enough to be a reliable STAB move.

 

[Mr. MR]

Not sure how viable a Sitrus Berry is on Azumarill, but it doesn't always activate. In the rare case where Azumarill will actually eat its Sitrus Berry, the HP regained isn't enough to help it much. People use Leftovers to slowly heal as you sweep with Aqua Jet once you Belly Drum. So even if the Pokemon that's left out against Azumarill manages to dent it, Leftovers will help make it survive a lot of revenge counter-switches. If Aqua Jet doesn't kill (even if resisted, I've seen it kill a lot), Leftovers will likely have healed Azumarill's HP back to ~50% and help it take super-effective attacks. Then you can just priority Aqua Jet again. Two is enough to kill most Water-resistant Pokemon, and even if they don't, STAB Play Rough / Superpower (depending if it is super-effective or not) on the first turn will.

Sitrus Berry is viable. It's helped me a lot more than Leftovers. You don't need health while sweeping but you need it to Belly Drum.

If you have a Pokemon that resists Water x4, then yes, I guess you could paralyze it. It can still be a waste of a turn if they choose to Play Rough / Superpower on the turn you paralyze it, and it actually carries through. I'd probably only paralyze an Azumarill if I feel lucky with paralysis hax. Uninvested base 50 is slow enough.

Or a bulky Pokémon with water resistance.

Lesson 3: Don't bother with Status. Your only stating the obvious.

Huge Power. +6 Aqua Jet still hits ridiculously hard for priority, hard enough to be a reliable STAB move.

I was referring to your statement that Poison was the best. It isn't. It's all situational. Paralyzing is good against fast Pokémon, Burn is good against powerful Physical attackers, and Poisoning is good against Pokémon with recoveries.
Sleep is the best as it's mostly reliable and gives you many free turns. The next best would be Frozen.

If you had to use one against Azumarill, Burn would be the best choice if you can put it to Sleep.

 

[Tragonight]

Sitrus Berry is viable. It's helped me a lot more than Leftovers. You don't need health while sweeping but you need it to Belly Drum.

Health can potentially help while sweeping. If Azumarill can't OHKO with a single Aqua Jet, the Leftovers recovery will help it survive to use a second. Leftovers is consistent and recovers every turn. Berries can only be used once and they don't really recover much more than Leftovers, I'd say about 3+ turns of Leftovers is the equivalent of a single Sitrus Berry. If they don't kill it at that point, then Leftovers Azumarill can be very difficult to deal with.

Or a bulky Pokémon with water resistance.

Not always. I wouldn't rely on anything that's not a x4 resistance to survive a +6 STAB. If you have Water resistance, chances are you can kill Azumarill if they choose to Play Rough / Superpower. I know, they won't always do that (+6 is menacing, even if resisted) but Azumarill has bad Speed and those moves aren't always reliable.

I was referring to your statement that Poison was the best. It isn't. It's all situational. Paralyzing is good against fast Pokémon, Burn is good against powerful Physical attackers, and Poisoning is good against Pokémon with recoveries.
Sleep is the best as it's mostly reliable and gives you many free turns. The next best would be Frozen.

If you had to use one against Azumarill, Burn would be the best choice if you can put it to Sleep.

The only thing paralysis has against Azumarill is its ability to occasionally stop it from moving. Paralysis has nothing against priority otherwise, as does fast Pokemon. Unless you have a fast Pokemon with priority, but I don't think they are strong enough to stop an Azumarill.

 

[Mr. MR]

Health can potentially help while sweeping. If Azumarill can't OHKO with a single Aqua Jet, the Leftovers recovery will help it survive to use a second. Leftovers is consistent and recovers every turn. Berries can only be used once and they don't really recover much more than Leftovers, I'd say about 3+ turns of Leftovers is the equivalent of a single Sitrus Berry. If they don't kill it at that point, then Leftovers Azumarill can be very difficult to deal with.

It's all about timing.
Sitrus allows you to Belly Drum after they they hit you without loosing a turn.

Not always. I wouldn't rely on anything that's not a x4 resistance to survive a +6 STAB. If you have Water resistance, chances are you can kill Azumarill if they choose to Play Rough / Superpower. I know, they won't always do that (+6 is menacing, even if resisted) but Azumarill has bad Speed and those moves aren't always reliable.

Aqua Jet only has 40 BP. I trust a Bulky Resistant Pokémon to live at least one Aqua Jet.

The only thing paralysis has against Azumarill is its ability to occasionally stop it from moving. Paralysis has nothing against priority otherwise, as does fast Pokemon. Unless you have a fast Pokemon with priority, but I don't think they are strong enough to stop an Azumarill.

Read all of lesson 3. I covered just about everything in Statusing Azumarill.

 

[Splash_King]

Isn't Azumarill Uber now or something? The thing can sweep almost as hard as Blaziken

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Literally the only set I see everywhere is Belly Drum / Aqua Jet / Play Rough / Superpower.

You've not seen a single CB Azumarill? I find that hard t' believe.

You should never send out Dragons until you've eliminated all of your opponent's Fairies, or else you're basically screwed.

So no one should ever send out Normal or Fighting-types if the opponent has a Ghost, Electric if they have Ground, etc.? Obviously not. Coverage moves are a thing. Snorlax learns Crunch, Conekldurr has Payback, Hydreigon gets Flash Cannon, etc. Typing is only that relevant when it completely shuts out an opponent's moveset, not just STAB.

Also, double switching.

First of all, do not send dragons out until your opponent's Azumarill is dead.

Life Orb/Specs-boosted coverage moves say no. I very much doubt a 252/0 Azumarill can take Specs Latios' Psyshock more than once. Would be surprised if that Sitrus gives it 50%+ HP after the first Psyshock. Gimme a calc.

Not that Latios can switch into or revenge kill an Azumarill that already set up, talkin' 'bout the other way 'round.

Toxic is the only notable status

tragoscrub

Paralyzing is good against fast Pokémon, Burn is good against powerful Physical attackers, and Poisoning is good against Pokémon with recoveries.
Sleep is the best as it's mostly reliable and gives you many free turns. The next best would be Frozen.

If you had to use one against Azumarill, Burn would be the best choice if you can put it to Sleep.

You're right 'bout Sleep bein' the best ever, praise be to Spore, but it does go deeper than that, there're plenty of situations to where those generalizations won't apply. Burn can be just as effective as Toxic, if not moreso once you factor in residual damage from previous turns' attacks, weather, entry hazards and recoil damage (be it recoil attacks or Life Orb). Since Toxic doesn't do more damage than regular Poison/Burn 'til turn 4, if you can choose between the two, Burn can kill a turn quicker in some situations... while also cuttin' Physical attack. On that note, Game Freak should implement a Sp.A-lowering Status.

Paralysis is always, ALWAYS beneficial, even on Slowking-speed things, if another option wouldn't defeat the threat in question. It effectively gives all'a their moves, includin' Speed-bypassing priority ones, a 25% chance of missing. If your team doesn't have six turns to stall out a sweeper via Burn/Poison damage since you've only three easily-OHKO'd Pokes left, Paralysis gives you a chance t' win in that situation via fully paralyzed hax. Priority T-wave was the sole reason Thundurus got banned last Generation; if it couldn't revenge kill an opposing non-Ground type threat, it'd be guaranteed to cripple it.

I'd say about 3+ turns of Leftovers is the equivalent of a single Sitrus Berry. If they don't kill it at that point, then Leftovers Azumarill can be very difficult to deal with.

A Sitrus Berry is most useful on BDAzumarill against offensive/balanced teams, as it makes setting up immensely easier. Leftovers is only more valuable than Sitrus in a situation where Azumarill is constantly taking residual damage and would be indirectly KO'd by said passive damage before it finishes a sweep, as Lefties doesn't give Azumarill a semi-free setup turn like Sitrus does. Which is t' say, Lefties Azumarill fares better against stall teams.

More importantly, if a team doesn't KO Azumarill by the second turn after it Belly Drums, be it by revenge kill or the Poke currently out, they likely already lost. Leftovers recovering more HP overtime than Sitrus is often irrelevant on a sweeper like BDAzumarill, which is meant to setup and sweep quickly.

 

[Tragonight]

You've not seen a single CB Azumarill? I find that hard t' believe.

What is CB?

On that note, Game Freak should implement a Sp.A-lowering Status.

What? Burn doesn't lower Sp. Attack?

Paralysis is always, ALWAYS beneficial, even on Slowking-speed things, if another option wouldn't defeat the threat in question. It effectively gives all'a their moves, includin' Speed-bypassing priority ones, a 25% chance of missing.

Paralysis lowers accuracy?

Priority T-wave was the sole reason Thundurus got banned last Generation; if it couldn't revenge kill an opposing non-Ground type threat, it'd be guaranteed to cripple it.

Is it still banned?

 

[Mr. MR]

Life Orb/Specs-boosted coverage moves say no. I very much doubt a 252/0 Azumarill can take Specs Latios' Psyshock more than once. Would be surprised if that Sitrus gives it 50%+ HP after the first Psyshock. Gimme a calc.

The problem with that is because it's has Specs and kills something that is not Azumarill, Azumarill will jump in after the Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse and BD and Sweep.
Choiced Dragons are Azumarill Fodder.
Though this can be avoided if you are careful. (Don't lock yourself into a Dragon move)

You're right 'bout Sleep bein' the best ever, praise be to Spore, but it does go deeper than that, there're plenty of situations to where those generalizations won't apply. Burn can be just as effective as Toxic, if not moreso once you factor in residual damage from previous turns' attacks, weather, entry hazards and recoil damage (be it recoil attacks or Life Orb). Since Toxic doesn't do more damage than regular Poison/Burn 'til turn 4, if you can choose between the two, Burn can kill a turn quicker in some situations... while also cuttin' Physical attack. On that note, Game Freak should implement a Sp.A-lowering Status.

Paralysis is always, ALWAYS beneficial, even on Slowking-speed things, if another option wouldn't defeat the threat in question. It effectively gives all'a their moves, includin' Speed-bypassing priority ones, a 25% chance of missing. If your team doesn't have six turns to stall out a sweeper via Burn/Poison damage since you've only three easily-OHKO'd Pokes left, Paralysis gives you a chance t' win in that situation via fully paralyzed hax. Priority T-wave was the sole reason Thundurus got banned last Generation; if it couldn't revenge kill an opposing non-Ground type threat, it'd be guaranteed to cripple it.

Right but it's not a reliable method to take out Azumarill. You leaving it up to chance from then on. If the RNG is favorable you kill him in the next turn. If it's not favorable, then you loose.

 

[Mr. MR]

Sorry for the double post

What is CB?

Citrus Berry

What? Burn doesn't lower Sp. Attack?

Nope

Paralysis lowers accuracy?

Nope
Just has a chance that the Paralyzed Poké does nothing.

Is it still banned?

Nope

 

[Splash_King]

questions

*facepalm*

What is CB?

Citrus Berry

*FACEPALM*

Choice Band. ._.;

 

[Mr. MR]

*FACEPALM*

Choice Band. ._.;

Citrus Berry is also relevant
Because apparently he hasn't seen one of those as well
and it was done jokingly becuase Sitrus Berry

 

[Neosquid]

The most important thing about Azumarill is not to use it. Ever.

 

[Mr. MR]

The most important thing about Azumarill is not to use it. Ever.