Project M Discussion Thread

[Splash_King]

Despite outright-bein' a clone, he's still a fan favorite. He's obviously less difficult t' create than Mewtwo and less of a clone than Dr. Mario. As such, I interpret Roy as a testing ground for the clone engine... hence why I don't believe we'll see anyone else so clone-ish. Unique gameplay ain't enough merit for a mod the quality of P:M, aesthetic polish very much counts as well. Roy didn't get a retardedly huge make-over 'cause that's his flavor, he's a veteran. He's not a new character like Ridley. If Ridley joins the Melee, they ain't gonna make any sort'a Charizard clone outta him.

... Hence my apprehension towards the difficulty makin' a polished Ridley presents.

 

[Mr. MR]

The clone has to start somewhere.
They don't build from scratch especially projectiles moves.

I am just saying if they do make a Ridley, they will probably start with Charizard and work from there. They would keep some of their animation or tweek it just a little for some moves and completely change others.

I think a Micaiah could be done over Zelda although her projectile game might be limited.

 

[Splash_King]

My point is that makin' a polished and presentable Ridley would, from my understandin' of hax, pose quite the challenge. Charizard as a base or not.

 

[Mr. MR]

I have some pretty good ideas about the Pichu Bros. as a Ice Climber like duo.
I wonder if they could replace the both of the Ice Climbers with character and build from there.

I also got this cool idea. What if you could switch between the two Ice Climbers? I know they wont include that for them but it would be a cool idea for the Pichu Bros.

 

[Splash_King]

needz moar plusle & minun

 

[Mr. MR]

needz moar plusle & minun

This is blasphemy!!!

 

[Splash_King]

dis iz madlucas

... But now that ya mention it, yeah. A duo character meant t' bring somethin' completely new to the table through Ice Climbers' unique mechanic? I'd love t' see that. Namely somethin' where you have some sort'a control over the second character rather than havin' them just do the same thing you do a few frames late... with limitation, obviously. Maybe they can cancel certain moves (specials, most notably) into each other's, but never can the same move cancel-able in one combo. Maybe they can change who's in the lead position, which changes their moveset and especially special moves to directly influence how this move canceling works.

Way better than Pichu (Bros.), yep.

 

[Mr. MR]

Maybe they can cancel certain moves (specials, most notably) into each other's, but never can the same move cancel-able in one combo. Maybe they can change who's in the lead position, which changes their moveset and especially special moves to directly influence how this move canceling works.

Elaborate please

 

[Splash_King]

Plusle and Minun are essentially the postermons for Double battling, blatantly obvious by their parallel aesthetics and abilities Plus & Minus. It'd only make sense that, if they were to make like Ice Climbers and be a character duo, that their moveset would focus on move combinations and teamwork.

I think said teamwork would be best represented by Plusle and Minun having their own unique Special movesets. I can envision a cancel mechanic that would allow you to have one use a special, and then have the option for the other t' use that same special in a row, or cancel into their own special of any directional input. This would not only differentiate the duo from ICs, but keep things from lookin' like a pair of Pikachu clones just tryin' to be Ice Climbers. More importantly, it'd make for some interesting combinations. Doubling down on certain move is fine 'n all, but the potential of chaining certain moves into different ones akin to P:M Lucario would make for some interesting high-level play, assumin' everythin' is properly balanced and doesn't go the route of (semi) infinites.

Obviously if both Pokes have their own Specials, there'd need t' be a way to switch between 'em. This could be done through either a taunt (eliminating mid-air switching; a possible problem), or as a Special in the form of Volt Switch... which would, naturally, have unique move properties for each 'mon.

As for how this would be integrated t' work like Ice Climbers, the biggest question is: can they be separated? If so, the dynamic of separating 'em would likely murder their viability like with SoPo... since the rodents shouldn't be able t' do chaingrab shenanigans or any other legitimately broken things while together, I'd say havin' 'em get separated would be a poor idea. Keep 'em from bein' complete glass cannons.

 

[Tuvillo]

Oh, people have mentioned Black Shadow (F-Zero) over the CURRENT Ganondorf, and then changing Ganondorf's moveset to fit him more.

The series that really don't need more characters: Zelda and Pokemon. (Zelda has 5 characters, Pokemon would have a ton after everybody's favorite Mewtwo.)

 

[Splash_King]

Agreed. I was only millin' on 'bout the idea of a moar awesome Ice Climbers outta curiosity on how their concept could be improved. Realistically, the only 'mon that'l join P:M is Mewtwo. Wouldn't want t' see PraiMai anyways. Not that I wouldn't like t' see my ideas or somethin' similar executed superbly.

... And we sure as **** won't see another Zelda character, I don't think. Not unless PM:BR find their way to MR's moveset thread.

 

[Mr. MR]

Plusle and Minun are essentially the postermons for Double battling, blatantly obvious by their parallel aesthetics and abilities Plus & Minus. It'd only make sense that, if they were to make like Ice Climbers and be a character duo, that their moveset would focus on move combinations and teamwork.

I agree with you to an extent. But because you have a Red and Blue one, it would make it hard to distinguish teams, specially if you can switch between them. I like the Pichu Bros. more because they get hats and because they were the original teamwork pair. Brotherhood > Teamwork
They can even use the Spiky Ear Pichu and the Pikachu Colored Pichu, although the Brotherhood would end.

Also it should be noted that Pichu already has sound files for everything.

I think said teamwork would be best represented by Plusle and Minun having their own unique Special movesets. I can envision a cancel mechanic that would allow you to have one use a special, and then have the option for the other t' use that same special in a row, or cancel into their own special of any directional input. This would not only differentiate the duo from ICs, but keep things from lookin' like a pair of Pikachu clones just tryin' to be Ice Climbers. More importantly, it'd make for some interesting combinations. Doubling down on certain move is fine 'n all, but the potential of chaining certain moves into different ones akin to P:M Lucario would make for some interesting high-level play, assumin' everythin' is properly balanced and doesn't go the route of (semi) infinites.

If both Pokes have their own Specials, there'd need t' be a way to switch between 'em. This could be done through either a taunt (eliminating mid-air switching; a possible problem), or as a Special in the form of Volt Switch... which would, naturally, have unique move properties for each 'mon.

Having their own Special moveset could be interesting but so could having the same Special moveset. Having different ones would make the player confused when he switches between them. Although it would be interesting if they had a different hitboxs and tippers like Falco and Fox, Marth and Roy.
Personally I think they should have the same moveset as to not complicate things but making already existing attacks much more interesting. Think of trapping opponents in a Double Thunder. Their Neutral B would be simmilar to the Ice Climbers Neutral B but much more dynamic; a constent line of Jumping electricity. Although to prevent spamming them, the Pichu's would have to take some damage for each use.

Here is my idea (which is probably following some of your idea): Switching used as a buffer (or maybe even automatic). Having it so when one Pichu is attacking, you can switch directly into the other by using a button command like taunt (or even pressing B just to make it more simple), taking the idea of Volt Switch and turning it into a mechanic. Although I don't know if that would make programming such a thing difficult, but they could just make it a semi-switch so you have complete control over the Pichu for a short time.

For Normal Attacks I think a Buffered A or B button should perform the Perma/Semi Switch.

For Throws, I think it should be automatic. And just to be on the safe side they should have an anti infinite engine safegaurd.

It would be awesome ending a string of attacks into a double thunder combo ender.

Here is a list of the Specials I think they should have.

Neutral B: Thundershock; Volt Switch when buffered

Side B: Helping Hand
One Pichu throws the other Pichu a long distance. Aerials done out of this are stronger and have more knockback. Can be used as a recovery but it could sacrifice the other.
With Perma Switching, the Pichu thrown becomes the main one.
With Semi Switching, the Pichu thrown is always the main one.

Up B: Quick Attack
Each Pichu can only travel half of Pikachu's Quick Attack but together they can do the complete Quick Attack. (This can be done many ways, if you want I can elaborate). Alone (or even in the middle of a full QA) they can cancel it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf4AKHWNAB4

Down B: Thunder

Think of the combos you could set up with a Pichu Quick Attack Cancel. Back Throw with one. Quick Attack Cancel Up-Smash with the other (QACUS lol).

As for how this would be integrated t' work like Ice Climbers, the biggest question is: can they be separated? If so, the dynamic of separating 'em would likely murder their viability like with SoPo... since the rodents shouldn't be able t' do chaingrab shenanigans or any other legitimately broken things while together, I'd say havin' 'em get separated would be a poor idea. Keep 'em from bein' complete glass cannons.

Chain grabs should be kept to a minimum by having the self hurting mechanic for certain (or all) grabs, turning their main focus away from chain grabs to teamwork combos.
The way to kill the IC's is to separate them and that should be the same way to kill PraMai/Pichu Bros.

Agreed. I was only millin' on 'bout the idea of a moar awesome Ice Climbers outta curiosity on how their concept could be improved. Realistically, the only 'mon that'l join P:M is Mewtwo. Wouldn't want t' see PraiMai anyways. Not that I wouldn't like t' see my ideas or somethin' similar executed superbly.

Don't forget that Pichu was in Melee though, so he would be a vet. I wouldn't mind a whole lot of Pokémon characters in Project M if they have all been in Smash before.

... And we sure as **** won't see another Zelda character, I don't think. Not unless PM:BR find their way to MR's moveset thread.

Is that a complement :3

Also
[video=youtube;fzhWYNzHyA4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzhWYNzHyA4[/video]


ALT COSTUME ENGINE!!!!!!
cBliss?
MAYBE!!!


skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda skyword sword zelda

 

[Tragonight]

Of course, a minute after I stop checking, MR gets to it. -_-

This gives us the ability to add individual flair to every character, without having to massively overhaul them.

YESZ!

 

[Splash_King]

[STRIKE]DOC CONFIRMED FOR P:M HYPE[/strike]

Who the 'Karp is that Peach alt shown at the end?

Having their own Special moveset could be interesting but so could having the same Special moveset. Having different ones would make the player confused when he switches between them. Although it would be interesting if they had a different hitboxs and tippers like Falco and Fox, Marth and Roy.

Correction: a n00b would be confused. Keepin' track of 4 extra moves over the average character moveset ain't all-that hard, even for a mediocre player lol. I stand by my idea of them havin' different special moves. It'd give further depth to their move-canceling abilities and their character as a whole... and would have match-up application obviously, like Zelda 'n Shiek transforming to suit a particular match-up, although likely not to such a huge extent.

Here is my idea (which is probably following some of your idea): Switching used as a buffer (or maybe even automatic). Having it so when one Pichu is attacking, you can switch directly into the other by using a button command like taunt (or even pressing B just to make it more simple), taking the idea of Volt Switch and turning it into a mechanic. Although I don't know if that would make programming such a thing difficult, but they could just make it a semi-switch so you have complete control over the Pichu for a short time.

For Normal Attacks I think a Buffered A or B button should perform the Perma/Semi Switch.

For Throws, I think it should be automatic. And just to be on the safe side they should have an anti infinite engine safegaurd.

A good idea, havin' a buffered taunt allow any move t' have the switch occur. Maybe it'd be too complex if every move had a specific switch attack, but it'd have some really interestin' competitive applications. But what do ya mean by a "permanent/temporary" switch?

Think of the combos you could set up with a Pichu Quick Attack Cancel.

Same thing came t' mind lol. Pikachu's QAC is only really used for spacing and mobility; but what if it could be used mid-combo? It'd make for some crazy back-and-forth across-the-stage combos.

The way to kill the IC's is to separate them and that should be the same way to kill PraMai/Pichu Bros.

I vehemently disagree. The only reason ICs are viable is because of their chain grabbing shenanigans. Who plays ICs in tourneys where chain grabbing/wobbling/etc. is banned? Almost no one. The reason for this is 'cause, without their retardedly broken chain grabbing, separating and killing the CPU off REALLY kills the character's viability. One'a the most important things for a new character is balance. If they can be easily separated and KO'd, they need the ability to easily KO opponents... which, in itself, is unbalanced in akin to the glass cannon Deoxys-A.

If they can be separated, it needs t' be different than just smackin' 'em away from each other and preying on the CPU's stupidity. If that mechanic stays, how the CPU functions or what happens after the CPU is KO'd needs to change.

Is that a complement :3

Yesz!

 

[Mr. MR]

Who the 'Karp is that Peach alt shown at the end?

Shadow Peach

Correct: a n00b would be confused. Keepin' track of 4 extra moves over the average character moveset ain't all-that hard, even for a mediocre player lol. I stand by my idea of them havin' different special moves. It'd give further depth to their move-canceling abilities and their character as a whole... and would have match-up application obviously, like Zelda 'n Shiek transforming back to suit a particular match-up, although likely not to such a huge extent.

I see the applications that can have but I also see a problem. You have to keep switching your playstyle in mid combat. It's like constantly switching from Marth to Roy except they look exactly like each other sides the color. That is the type of confusion I am talking about. You're going to make a mistake and drop combos.

Plus those colors would confuse teams.

A good idea, havin' a buffered taunt allow any move t' have the switch occur. Maybe it'd be too complex if every move had a specific switch attack, but it'd have some really interestin' competitive applications. But what do ya mean by a "permanent/temporary" switch?

If Perma Switching is almost impossible to program then temporary switching would have to do. Also you would have to change the percents at the bottom screen constantly.

Same thing came t' mind lol. Pikachu's QAC is only really used for spacing and mobility; but what if it could be used mid-combo? It'd make for some crazy back-and-forth across-the-stage combos.

Clarification: You know Pikachu's QAC is very different from Pichu's QAC. Comparing the two confuses me.

I vehemently disagree. The only reason ICs are viable is because of their chain grabbing shenanigans. Who plays ICs in tourneys where chain grabbing/wobbling/etc. is banned? Almost no one. The reason for this is 'cause, without their retardedly broken chain grabbing, separating and killing the CPU off REALLY kills the character's viability. One'a the most important things for a new character is balance. If they can be easily separated and KO'd, they need the ability to easily KO opponents... which, in itself, is unbalanced in akin to the glass cannon Deoxys-A.

If they can be separated, it needs t' be different than just smackin' 'em away from each other and preying on the CPU's stupidity. If that mechanic stays, how the CPU functions or what happens after the CPU is KO'd needs to change.

Good point. Although do you agree that Pichu Bros./PraMai's focus should not be chain grabs but combo'ing. If switching is a thing (maybe Side B when the Pichu's are apart), then you can defend both, by playing which ever one is under assault.