The Christian religion

[White-Wolf]

whoa whoa whoa. how could i know and dont know. let me make this easier to understand for you...i was in the FUTURE and saw everything that leads up to that event. I dont interfere and it happens hence he had the free will to decide to go up the ramp but he didnt. i knew it was going to happen. I'm going to work with you through this ok.:smilewinkgrin: THEREFORE IT IS POSSIBLE TO KNOW THE FUTURE AND NOT INTERFERE WITH FREE WILL. YOU JUST KNOW WHATS COMING. PROVEN IN BIBLE!

well now we are getting into quantum physics. I love that stuff too, but if you know the future, you interfere with free will. Sure he took that action but if the future said he was distended to do so, he really didn’t have a choice to make as it was already made. Also if you knew he would do it, you’re not all loving for not stopping him. If you do stop him, then you really didn’t see the actual future because you were not infallible, and made a mistake on what would happen, and thus you wouldn’t know everything. I thought this actually happened that you somehow knew your friend would get hurt. I thought you were using a real life example. If you know the future, then no choice exists as the choice has been made already.

1. ok thats not fair comparing all christians that way. personally homosexuallity is wrong and if someone asked me to support it i would refuse. why on earth would i support a sin. that goes for other sins too. but if people are can thats their business and they will pay for that sin. all i would say is taht its wrong and explain why and that would be the end of it. thats silly to support sin and yes all sin is equal. i just dont support it. I dont do any acts of hatred to them. understand? Yes Jesus is a get out of jail free card but once your truely saved by him you get a strong sense of right and wrong. Jesus paid the price for all our sins.

Well i think it is, as accepting gays seems to be a minority, and trying to save them seems to be the majority. You should speak out against these anti Christians who are running your good image. But a sin is a sin in the bible. So being gay is only as sinful as existing. Although i don’t agree that all sins are equal. But that’s what your book says so im arguing from its perspective on sin.

2.yes we accept others and we do it all the time. and we love to share the good word but by all means if you dont want to hear it we wont bother you and just hang out with each other and talk about everythings, play paintball, whatever. I dont know what so called christians you've been hanging around but obviously are giving us a bad name. So nothing you really said truly contradicts the bible. Stupid peoples actions does not contradict the bible.
I'll pray for you. Like i said before i dont want to force my beliefs on you, just letting you know friend. Believe what you want, i'm just stating what i KNOW is fact. After all this thread is titled christianity after all.

you cant accept someone and except them to change. Absolute love is absolute love without any hidden agenda and is well… absolute. The mire idea of trying to convert someone goes against this acceptance, if you accepted someone you wouldn’t want to change them.

Praying wont help me, as i am just fine the way I am. Oh but don’t worry, I will pray that someday you will read a second book.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

you really thought i was using a real life example? nope mere mortal can see the future. I've reread this agrument about free will and all i see is us agruing using the same thing over and over. What you said just doesnt add up to me and what i said, even though it makes perfect sense to me, doesnt to you. I don't us convincing each other but i will continue to try to agrue with you if you like. anyway yes i do correct those kind of christians when we come across the subject. I hope you also understand why i countered that statement you made which i got you where infering all christians were like that. Sin is sin in the eyes of god. I think where your going from is the way law enforcement interprets sin. Say like murder you'll do some hard time but the sin of lets say assualt and battery, you'll get a less harsh punishment. I"m all for that since me being in law enforcement myself. Wouldnt want some serial killer on the street now would we? Thats mans perspective of sin my friend. So you saying christians can't be friends with with other people that are different. From experience i've had mormon friends, jewish friends, etc. and yeah we like to share and compare religions but most of the time we just hung out, talked about girls, the latest movies, played videogames, rode bikes, and enjoyed each others company. So yes you can accept someone and if they want to convert our not its there business. If he wants to learn about my religion and compare thats for him to decide. So thats a very inaccurate statement you made about acceptance. THIS IS FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and some of them are good people. They have free will to decide what to do in life. There, you learn something new everyday. Believe me you need some prayer. And yes i read other books. I see you just like to jump to conclusions and assume things. Thats not to smart.

 

[Sovieto]

Since I don't feel like reading paragraphs of paragraphs and paragraphs of stuff.
I would just like to ask:
HOW THE HELL ARE YOU DEBATING OVER A RELIGION?

Seriously, I might not be talking about what you guys are talking about, but can't you guys just go on with your mary lives knowing what religion you are/aren't and just keep everything to yourself?

 

[White-Wolf]

you really thought i was using a real life example? nope mere mortal can see the future. I've reread this agrument about free will and all i see is us agruing using the same thing over and over. What you said just doesnt add up to me and what i said, even though it makes perfect sense to me, doesnt to you. I don't us convincing each other but i will continue to try to agrue with you if you like. anyway yes i do correct those kind of christians when we come across the subject. I hope you also understand why i countered that statement you made which i got you where infering all christians were like that. Sin is sin in the eyes of god. I think where your going from is the way law enforcement interprets sin. Say like murder you'll do some hard time but the sin of lets say assualt and battery, you'll get a less harsh punishment. I"m all for that since me being in law enforcement myself. Wouldnt want some serial killer on the street now would we? Thats mans perspective of sin my friend. So you saying christians can't be friends with with other people that are different. From experience i've had mormon friends, jewish friends, etc. and yeah we like to share and compare religions but most of the time we just hung out, talked about girls, the latest movies, played videogames, rode bikes, and enjoyed each others company. So yes you can accept someone and if they want to convert our not its there business. If he wants to learn about my religion and compare thats for him to decide. So thats a very inaccurate statement you made about acceptance. THIS IS FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and some of them are good people. They have free will to decide what to do in life. There, you learn something new everyday. Believe me you need some prayer. And yes i read other books. I see you just like to jump to conclusions and assume things. Thats not to smart.

saying I need prayer is as offensive to me as im sure saying that you needed to read more books other then the bible was to you, I’m not sure you understand that or not, and I was trying to point that out with an interlaced language. But I take it back for what’s it worth, as I don’t want this to turn into a flame war, but saying you will pray for me is implying that somehow I am lost and confused, when this is not the case. It’s demeaning.

About the acceptance bit, I never said you can’t get along with people other then Christians. I feel that its you who is jumping to conclusions. What I was talking about was more of an absolute rather then a practicality, as I feel Christians deal alot with absolutes, and black and white, good and evil.



"nope mere mortal can see the future."


its not that im confused about reality as we know it, but its Lines like this that confused me about what you were saying to say. I thought you were talking about predicting with a educated guess.

but can't you guys just go on with your mary lives knowing what religion you are/aren't and just keep everything to yourself?

If thats what you wish i can grant it.
do you wish this?

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

if there is nothing else you wish to bring up then i guess so

 

[DBloke]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God
Wiki def of god

 

[motherbrainrulez]

these builders found an alien bible whilst digging a tunnel

 

[Close]

these builders What builders ? found an alien bible Really ? whilst digging a tunnel What Tunnel ?

Weird.....:wtf:

 

[Ronan]

well, just because you knew your friend was going to hurt himself, but you really didn’t know. You guessed, well educated guessing i should say. But he could have ramped and made it, you don’t know 100%. Nothing is for sure when dealing with people. So lets assume you did know for sure that he would hurt him self... you let him crash and hurt himself. does that sound like a friend? Not saying you weren’t, because you didn’t know 100 that he would get hurt, just that its was the most likely thing to happen.

You asked me to show the bible contradicts itself.

1
How about gays, yes i said it, but its one of the biggest ones. We are supposed to all sin right, that’s what the bible says is it not? so why do so many Christians hate or disapprove of gays when by existing we are equal sinners? If I have to repent for being me, I’m going to rape little kids, kick puppies, and break the fingers off of old people. Why? because if existing is a sin then bring it on!!! + no matter what I do I can get a get out of hell free card.

We are all equal sinners, its just those that truly sorry (and not because their scared of going to hell) go to heaven.


Look, the bible says a lot of stuff that can be construed as anything, you have to decide what

 

[Icetrash]

God gave us the gift of free will because he loves us and made us all unique. He loved us so much that he gave his son to die on the cross which he knew would happen. Jesus didnt have to be he did anyway. Just like when satan tried to tempt jesus 3 times in the desert. Jesus could have done it but he didnt. what your saying doesnt make since. God gave us free will and he showed us how to get to heaven through his son. Just like Jesus knew he would be betrayed by Judas but he let it happen because it was the only way to save us. Yes God knows who will go to heaven and hell but he told loud and clear how to get to heaven. Yeah hell is cruel but WE ALL HAVE SINNED and deserve to go there cuz those who commit evil have no place in heaven. God knows what will happen but he doesnt interfere. He can and he has warned us about future events such as the antichrist and armageddon but he gave us the will to choose our own fate. We try to convince others we are right because god commanded us to. If you dont wanna hear it fine, we are just supposed to give you the opportunity. The way you say christians make others believe in their religion is very inacurrate anyway i will finsih this post when i get back....

No, it states in the Bible that God didnt give us free will. I forgot what chapter it was but we went over it in school. It just seems we have free will.... if that makes sense...

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

No, it states in the Bible that God didnt give us free will. I forgot what chapter it was but we went over it in school. It just seems we have free will.... if that makes sense...

Well I believe thats inaccurate. God gave us the ability the choice how we want to live our lives. And yes he can see events that happen in the future to. My God is all powerful. It doesn't say anywhere in the bible about that to my knowledge, but please show me if you can so i can learn something new:yesnod:. And for all those who i have debated with, I am not trying to preach at you, I am just defending the claims you made, I personally think that it is nearly impossible to "witness" to someone online. I do not blame you for the way the christian church has behaved in recent times, I myself am a follower of christ, and I walk the walk. My outlook on life is, show people christ through my lifestyle and the way I treat them. They will see god through me, and glorify him(Matthew 5:16). And remember, its quite prejudice to accuse the sinful actions of someone claiming to be a christian and compare it to all the christians that don't comment those acts. Hateing a religion so reasonable, logical, and peaceful as christianity is a serious thing. But then again, people have hated christians ever since jesus.

 

[White-Wolf]

Do I sense another possible contradiction brewing? :wink:

And remember, its quite prejudice to accuse the sinful actions of someone claiming to be a christian and compare it to all the christians that don't comment those acts. Hateing a religion so reasonable, logical, and peaceful as christianity is a serious thing. But then again, people have hated christians ever since jesus.

I think you make a good point though, but I have to wonder, how much corruption and hypocrisy can a religion take before it starts to become something else, or someone else’s? What should the good people do when its been subverted by a majority that is out for blood? I think I can say that the only denomination of Christianity I trust would be Quaker... not to be confused with Shaker. I think Muslim is also becoming unstable, were the extremists are almost opposite of the religions core values, but then again the usa is being blasted with so much anti Muslim propaganda, its hard to know what’s really happening over their. If someone is Muslim or Christian, and reading this, I do not mean to offend.

*edit* its not worth it, never mind

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

these verses in the bible explain to us christians that god frees man's will so he can turn to god. so with this evidence to me i came to the conclusion that god gives us free will but knows all along the choices we make. So god knows each of our fates but does not consciously control the actions we make. Thats what i got out of it. Makes sense too. Kind of like christmas when i was little (this is a metaphor) wasnt always sure was i was going to get that morning, but my parents(God) did and had it all planned out (fate) and i woke up in the morning not knowing what to expect and trying to figure out what it could be and then i always got surprised in a good way of course. Therefore my parents knew what i was getting before i did on christmas morning hence knowing the future while not taking away my free will in any way and just letting me try to figure it out for myself. Something along those lines i believe of course there is a little more to it with what we are talking about. Thats just a metaphor.

1 The exhortations to turn to God (Prov 1:23; Isa 31:6; Ezek 14:6; Matt 18:13; Acts 3:19).
2 The exhortations to repent (I Kings 8:47; Matt 2:3; Mark 1:15; Luke 13:3,5; Acts 2:38).
3 The exhortations to believe (II Chr 20:20; Isa 43:10; John 6:29; 14:1; Acts 16:31).
4 The exhortations to obey (Acts 5:32; II Thess 1:8; Heb 5:9).

 

[White-Wolf]

Just because you don’t know what you’re going to get, doesn’t mean that you have free will to make that choice of what you get. It’s not about knowing or not knowing, it’s about the decision and the path. If the decision in the future has been made already, then their is no choice involved on your part.

Ok so I get up, I can ware green socks, or yellow socks, but my best friend is a diviner, let’s say, he saw what choice I would make. Their that’s it, their really wasn’t a choice. It may have seemed like a choice to me, but the fact it was destined to happen that I pick green, the power that I have to make that choice has been taken out of my hands and placed into fates.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

ok the best way i can explain this to you is that yes are fate can be seen by God. God knows everything we will do from giving us free will. Therefore, he isnt consciously controlling us. He is letting us do our own thing while knowing what we will do before hand. God knows our fate in the end. ok think of it this way god gave us free will and looked into the future to see what we would do with it therefore technically our free will isnt taken away, ALL GOD DID WAS LOOK AHEAD OF TIME. Our actions have already been foreseen by the gift of free will. If almighty God wants to look into the future, who's to stop him. I guess it is just down to what you call it, but it sounds like free will to me. I'm ending my agrument here because like i said its hard to witness over the internet. But to a logical person i believe this is very possible if you believe there is a god.