Christians

[viperjason]

To suggest that their sin was having sex with Satan completely conflicts with the context of that part of the Bible, not to mention the language itself.

John 8 (not the only one that points this out)
[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

They were of their father the devil, which means that Satan had to father at least 1 child. He was a murderer from the beginning, this points to Cain as the first murderer. That makes it easy to understand that Cain was the son of the devil.

What the heck is this? Satan does not dwell in heaven and he will not come down.

REV chap 12
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revalation speaks of the time when Christ will come down to earth, but first satan will be cast down.

 

[Brawny]

John 8 (not the only one that points this out)
[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

They were of their father the devil, which means that Satan had to father at least 1 child. He was a murderer from the beginning, this points to Cain as the first murderer. That makes it easy to understand that Cain was the son of the devil.


REV chap 12
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revalation speaks of the time when Christ will come down to earth, but first satan will be cast down.

Why do you think that Satan has to have had a child? We call one part of the Trinity, God the Father. Do you think he concieved or put his own sperm into your mom?

Next, It says cast down, cast out, that is to say into the void. Not cast down onto earth to have a bunch of evil kids.

I was not kidding when I was talking about that cult.

 

[viperjason]

The Hebrew word for "seed" is zera`
It's only usage in that part of the Bible (where Satan temps Adam and Eve is here at Genesis 3:15, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (zera`) and her seed (zera`); it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

And zar'ah means offspring, and Satan cant have an offspring without having sex, therefore Satan had sex with Eve. I can understand why some may not want to believe this and rather believe the whole apple thing, but really, when was the last time an apple got you pregnat?

 

[viperjason]

Why do you think that Satan has to have had a child? We call one part of the Trinity, God the Father. Do you think he concieved or put his own sperm into your mom?

Next, It says cast down, cast out, that is to say into the void. Not cast down onto earth to have a bunch of evil kids.

I was not kidding when I was talking about that cult.

Um, I never said I was the son of God, so your statement about my mom doesnt make any sense. God had one and only one son, Jesus.

Read father brawny in that same chapter of revelation....
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Keep reading into chapter 13
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

And so on and so on. So yes....he is cast down onto the earth to decieve the world.

 

[Kelso]

Alright, I'll give in here and discuss. lol

Your right, it is only resolved in my mind. I fail to understand why people, not necessarily anyone on this forum, feel that just because someone thinks differently they must be wrong. Its a very self-centered way of looking at things. I grew up Christian (Baptist actually) and was always told that I needed to make it a life goal to convert people to Christianity. I think that is bull. No one knows for a fact what is right or what is wrong.

If everyone were to just let people believe what they want (as long as it doesn't physically hurt others...a la some cults) our society would be much more peaceful. This is the stuff that has fueled many many wars. Just look at the crusades....an enormous attempt to convert "heathens" to christianity. It's just not right.

My thoughts here apply to way more than just Christianity. That was just my personal experience. Some Muslim religions feel that anyone who doesn't agree with them shouldn't live. It's just absurd. Frankly, this whole topic is what has driven me away from any form of organized religion. I'm not an atheist, but I believe what I want...not what someone else thinks I should.

I couldent agree more with u!!! it drives me INSANE when ppl try to "save" me. But as far as this thread goes i don't think anyone is really trying to force their religion onto others. i could see where some people might get that vib. tho. I personaly love reading about other religions and the reasonings behind them... none has ever convinced me but it makes for interesting discusion.

 

[Leche159TKE]

I couldent agree more with u!!! it drives me INSANE when ppl try to "save" me. But as far as this thread goes i don't think anyone is really trying to force their rligion onto others. i could see where some people might get that vib. tho. I personaly love reading about other religions and the reasoning behind it... none has ever convinced me but it makes for interesting discusion.

Yeah, I see what your getting at. I unfortunately attend a Catholic college, so maybe I'm just tired of having it shoved down my throat in classes. lol

 

[Kelso]

Yeah, I see what your getting at. I unfortunately attend a Catholic college, so maybe I'm just tired of having it shoved down my throat in classes. lol

haha that would def. drive me crazy. I just hate when people tell u what to believe... thats why i never understood this whole "saving others" thing? Why do they do that? i mean it just pisses me off and makes me not want to join even more or even give them the time of day to hear their story!!!

 

[Brawny]

Alright, I'll give in here and discuss. lol

Your right, it is only resolved in my mind. I fail to understand why people, not necessarily anyone on this forum, feel that just because someone thinks differently they must be wrong. Its a very self-centered way of looking at things. I grew up Christian (Baptist actually) and was always told that I needed to make it a life goal to convert people to Christianity. I think that is bull. No one knows for a fact what is right or what is wrong.

If everyone were to just let people believe what they want (as long as it doesn't physically hurt others...a la some cults) our society would be much more peaceful. This is the stuff that has fueled many many wars. Just look at the crusades....an enormous attempt to convert "heathens" to christianity. It's just not right.

My thoughts here apply to way more than just Christianity. That was just my personal experience. Some Muslim religions feel that anyone who doesn't agree with them shouldn't live. It's just absurd. Frankly, this whole topic is what has driven me away from any form of organized religion. I'm not an atheist, but I believe what I want...not what someone else thinks I should.

I on the other hand, can't see how you think two theories of truth can coexist. If I believe I am right and you think differently, I must think you are wrong. The keyword is THINK. Thinking something is different than the absolute truth.

I am sorry that your experience with the Christian faith was so bad. I too don't like extremists forcing things down people's throats.

I'm sorry to anyone if defending my beliefs on this forum has offended you. I am not sorry for doing it though.

I couldent agree more with u!!! it drives me INSANE when ppl try to "save" me. But as far as this thread goes i don't think anyone is really trying to force their rligion onto others. i could see where some people might get that vib. tho. I personaly love reading about other religions and the reasoning behind it... none has ever convinced me but it makes for interesting discusion.

Yay, another thing we agree on!


To leche: first your name, milk in Spanish? meaning please. Also why go to a Catholic College if you don't believe in Christianity?

 

[Skippy]

And zar'ah means offspring, and Satan cant have an offspring without having sex, therefore Satan had sex with Eve. I can understand why some may not want to believe this and rather believe the whole apple thing, but really, when was the last time an apple got you pregnat?

Satan doesn't have any offspring. Eve did not get pregnant by Satan.

But you're right, it nowhere says it was an apple.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

John 8 (not the only one that points this out)
[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

They were of their father the devil, which means that Satan had to father at least 1 child. He was a murderer from the beginning, this points to Cain as the first murderer. That makes it easy to understand that Cain was the son of the devil.

thats a load of crap because Gensis Chap 3 staring at versus 2 says:
The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit(not seed) from the trees in the garden, but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die."
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Continue reading and it goes on about her eating the fruit then sharing it with Adam. It is unknown if the fruit was an apple or not but an apple, as far as i know, is just a popular metaphor for the fruit.

Also Gen Chap 4 says:
Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man." Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Satan is not the father because the bible tells me so:aureola:.

I believe you interpreted those verses in John 8 wrong being that when i read it and you should read the whole passage to add things up and was referring to that particular group of people being like Satan who refused to hear Jesus and wanted to kill him and being. Jesus also tells them God is their father (which of course he is). But yeah its a confusing passage but it specifically mentions Jesus referring to that particular group he was talking to.

 

[Leche159TKE]

I on the other hand, can't see how you think two theories of truth can coexist. If I believe I am right and you think differently, I must think you are wrong. The keyword is THINK. Thinking something is different than the absolute truth.

I am sorry that your experience with the Christian faith was so bad. I too don't like extremists forcing things down people's throats.

I'm sorry to anyone if defending my beliefs on this forum has offended you. I am not sorry for doing it though.

To leche: first your name, milk in Spanish? meaning please. Also why go to a Catholic College if you don't believe in Christianity?

No, Brawny, you haven't offended me. I actually haven't read a majority of the posts here so that's impossible. I don't think two truth's exist, I just don't think that what one person believes is anyone elses business. I want you to know that I was not accusing you of this, I was just making the statement in general.

As for my name, I'm a member of a college fraternity. Tau Kappa Epsilon or TKE, as is in my name.
Leche is my nickname in that fraternity and due to the bond I share with my brothers I cannot tell the meaning.

I go to a Catholic college for several reasons.

1. I feel that due to the aspect of it being private I can gain a better education as far as liberal arts and Marketing/Advertising.
2. I'm only an hour away from home, so never get homesick.
3. I'm already in Florida, might as well soak up the sun before I go to Syracuse University for grad school.
4. I thought about transferring many times, but the friends I've made here and my fraternity are the only things holding me back.

And I still wouldn't go so far as to say I'm not Christian. I just don't feel that I believe everything the Christian faith believes. Does that make me a non-Christian? ut: <--me scratching my head, not calling you dumb

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

what parts of the Christian faith don't you believe?

 

[viperjason]

I_Dont_Know859:
I decided to find something that would go more into depth about who's father Cain is.
http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/gardenofeden.htm

You might find it helpful
And if you dont want to read that long page, try reading this:
John 3:
V12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Cain was the child of the wicked one, Satan.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

I_Dont_Know859:
I decided to find something that would go more into depth about who's father Cain is.
http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/gardenofeden.htm

You might find it helpful
And if you dont want to read that long page, try reading this:
John 3:
V12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Cain was the child of the wicked one, Satan.

Ok i read that website carefully and found many flaws on it. Like take for example trees being symbolic of people. well adam and eve were the only people at that time some thats way off. In the example he uses he is right with the symbols and God using plants growing and stuff in other parts in the bible and every time he does he makes it clear about describing man but no in this case. Especially since there are only two people. Also what was God saying when he said you can have fruit from all the trees except that one. So they could have sex with all the animals there but Satan. Sorry but this is a bogus theory that doesnt add up. Theres a lot more I could easily discredit but I have to run. I'll be happy to do it later though.

 

[eketelon]

Actually, in the Catholic church, you don't have to fear God 24/7 because all you have to do is go to confession and you're clean. =)

But my point was why people would WANT to live in fear of something? That's just stupid. It's like someone going 30 mph in a 40 mph zone because he/she fears a cop might pull him/her over, (which at least makes some sense because we KNOW police are real). Personally I find that being a good person because you want to be, not because you fear some big fat **** immortal being in the sky, allows you to live a much better life.



=)



I don't have good friends on here to lose yet.

I haven't finish reading all the posts here yet (there are many), but, I wanted to slip this in and sorry if it's been said and I haven't noticed it. We don't and shouldn't live in fear of God; we love and respect God for all that He is. Fear as we understand it, is not how it is meant in the Bible when it says to fear God. Study of the word fear as it is written in that context shows that it means to honor and show reverance to Him.

There's so very much to it, and I'm not going to try to solve all the issues in this post, but, I'll try to say more at a later time.