Christians

[Brawny]

Whoa, this thread really blew up today. You guys kinda passed over it but I want to bring it up again: what is truth and what isn't. How do you squall think that if I believe my beliefs are the absolute truth, I should think your ideas are better than yours. Just as you think your ideas are better than mine. You can't have equal ideas. Dang, gotta go so I can't comment on all the other issues.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

It's not about believing in the bible. It's about respect.

No it is about believing the bible, its like the core of this whole debate. Its also good to be respectful to each other to but when you make these little comments about not about believeing the bible when its really kind of hard to take you seriously or even intelligently.

It's that I'm stating a fact. "Researcher bias" is a very real thing.

the so called fact you stated previously is that i have it. you dont even know and the experiences ive been through my whole life and by a few posts you can tell i have it. c'mon

Sin is a concept from religion. It's religion itself that is tearing the world apart. What about the babies that died almost straight after birth? What 'evil' did they do? If Jesus really never sinned, why was he baptised by John the baptist? Also, this is a discussion, and I ask you to discuss in a civil manner. "You obviously don't know much about religion" is an unneccessary statement, and one that you're not sure of.

well it was a whole different ball game and some serious stuff was going on so God has his reasons. he killed a lot of people who choose a life of evil back then. Jesus was baptised as part of his teachings. How can i discuss civily if you make agruments that dont add up like brawny what branwy said you were doing. Just a lot of your statements are showing you dont no much about christianity and getting confused with sterotypes like you did with condemning gays and stuff.

Absolute truth through your personal experiences? Somebody on an LSD trip can 'know' they can fly, but it doesn't stop them jumping out of a window to their demise. Please, explain to me exactly what kind of personal experiences have given you the conclusion that Jesus was everything he was that was written in the bible.

Trust me i dont do narcotics and am against its use. You'll probably think this is b/s but when i got baptised and excepted Jesus i felt overwhelmed by the holy spirit. it was the most amazing feel i have ever had. My life changed for the better to like when i commit a sin and help me realize mistakes I make and learn from them. Giving up summer vacations back in high school to work for free repairing houses and other construction work on people houses that are living in poverty. thats only a little bit, but like i said you wouldnt understand just by reading a post. All i can do here is talk the talk when you dont see me walk the walk. Christ is the best thing thats ever happened to me.

Believe me, that wasn't a compliment. If Jesus came down and said that the US is doing evil things, and that it is your mission to stop them, would you?

well i took it as a compliment because i love my country and our freedom. Jesus says to obey our government and if it tells us to do evil things than it is better to be persicuted and sent to prison than do those evil things. Jesus would never tell me to stop them if it invovled commiting a sin to do it:aureola:

And this gives you the right to believe oneself is above another? Doesn't the bible itself teach otherwise?

i dont believe im above another, i'm just a miserable sinner like everyone else. Just saved by grace.

Or maybe you're the one confused. Whom you call Christians are not EVERY Christian. They believe Christ is their saviour, and are therefore Christians. Just because you don't agree with somebody else, doesn't mean they are not part of the group. I don't agree with everything Tony Blair says (hardly anything actually), but that doesn't make me non-British. It's funny that you're saying stuff against hate, yet you're fine with making yourself percieved to be better than me.

never said i was better than you, just forgiven by grace. Yeah i know Christians are not all the same, never said they were. You tell the difference by the one that talk the talk and walk the walk and the ones that dont.

Well, to be fair, I'm 100% sure that you're wrong but that doesn't mean that I'm going to say "So I don't accept your religion, get over it. If you dont except mine fine." or "i know its absolute truth". Fact of the matter, is that you're not nearly being as tolerant as what Christianity preaches.

well i do because mine is an absolute truth. How do you know what Christianity preaches so well. I think your fooling yourself. Lets make this easier for you to understand:

1. I dont believe one should force another's religion on someone but share it with the willing

2. I get along hanging out with others with different beliefs and if we don't accept each others beliefs, simply dont talk about. I believe my actions speak louder than words anyway.

3. If someone commits a sin (excluding misdemnors and felonies in our law like murder) i dont start yelling your going to hell or condemning them. that business is between them and God. Love the sinner hate the sin.

yea i'd say thats tolerant enoughut:

Or maybe your definition of "Christian" is an idealistic one, rather than an actual one. Also, once again you assume that I don't understand. Perhaps it is you that isn't understanding me.

Nah I believe on i'm the right track. I'm not understanding you cause you dont make much sense when it comes to me and why i believe it is an absolute truth. Brawny sums up why. Get over it. sheesh.

And whom made up that rule that one had to sacrifice to be redeemed? Surely God would not create a rule that neccessitated the need for himself to come down onto earth to change. Surely, God would be so powerful that he could undo his own ruling? Also, before Jesus, how did they know what was a sin and what wasn't if the bible is mostly written afterwards? (The new testament anyway).

I'm sure God did. Stupid Satan started all this mess to begin with. Well he sent Jesus and I'm glad he did. Thankful to since the worlds getting more and more corrupt everyday. Jesus will take care of that when he returns though. Lets see, before Jesus there were the prophets to teach about sin.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

this is my last reply on this subject. i totally get what youre saying man. however, there are different views on god in religions yes, but that doesnt change that fact that it is based on the same god. there are different views of god even in christianity, let alone from two different religions. the point is, no matter how god is viewed, it is the same god. the "trinity" is what the 3 combined/seperate entities are called. so the muslims dont have that, and? that still doesnt mean muslims and christians are not referring to the same god.

aside from this man, instead of getting caught up on one thing i said that you dont agree with, think about what else i said. think about why you think god is a killer. think about why slavery is preached in the bible, in exodus. that is my point. the messages in the bible are no good, aside from the moral code, which isnt that hard to figure out. do you think humans are so dumb that god needed to come down and tell us not to kill, or steal, or any of that? it is clear if a society kills one another, that they will not progress as a society. animals even know that, when speaking of their own kind. elephants mourn the loss of their dead, they will stand above the bones of their dead and caress them with their trunks. death is understood all the way down to animals.
as i said go read the chapter directly after the 10 commandments, and see the slavery preached. please drop this allah thing, because there is no argument about it. its the same god, period, different views yes, but still the same.

im unsubsribing form this thread. i have given you all you need to know and understand. if you choose not to take it, fine. hopefully one day, you, and all those like you, will understand that religion as a whole is very destructive. if you do not, well then, in my opinion, you will not progress as an individual. one must seek god himself, and not rely on what people, preachers, and desert dwelling morons think about him. the bible is hearsay. there is no other way to look at it. i wish all religious texts would be burned and forgotten. only then will this world get any better. still to this day it is causing death and confusion.

why do you think 9/11 happened? it happened because were buddies with israel, why? because theyre jews and who runs walstreet? jews do. if it were muslims, wed be protecting them and buddies with them. that is why the muslims are pissed. so what is the source of this war, 9/11, and all of this? religion, religion, religion, religion, religion.
you do away with it, youll have peace, and that is the only way.

god gave us all the clues to see how we got here. he left traces of evolution all around us. instead, people want to take the opinions of desert dwelling morons, who didnt even know the earth revolved around the sun or that it was round. if you want to take their opinons, like i did for 18 years of my life, then do it. but i know theyre wrong now. god does not reveal wrong science to people. evolution shows how smart god made atoms, and cells. if you cant see that beauty than i feel sorry for you.

thanks and i hope you see the light again. sorry but thats really strong evidence proving God and Allah are not the same. And 9/11 was done by a bunch of crazies who arent even accepted in their own religion. Hypocrites who are just full a hate and using religion to back up there motives. Anyway, nice talking to you. God bless.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Whoa, this thread really blew up today. You guys kinda passed over it but I want to bring it up again: what is truth and what isn't. How do you squall think that if I believe my beliefs are the absolute truth, I should think your ideas are better than yours. Just as you think your ideas are better than mine. You can't have equal ideas. Dang, gotta go so I can't comment on all the other issues.

Thank you Brawny. I just don't know why squall cant understand this.

 

[Brawny]

Yeah, I kind of skimmed over some of you guys' last couple threads but I pretty much agree with you 100%. I kinda feel sorry for dedpoet too. Added new quote to my sig *woot*

 

[Squall7]

No it is about believing the bible, its like the core of this whole debate. Its also good to be respectful to each other to but when you make these little comments about not about believeing the bible when its really kind of hard to take you seriously or even intelligently.

You think you're correct and I'm incorrect because YOU believe in the bible. What I'm refering to is your unwillingness to say "You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe". Instead you're trying to "win" the arguement by (not literally) saying "You believe what ever you want. I'll know the truth". It's the fact that you respect others so little that you cannot say "Ok, we're on equal ground. I'll stay in mine half and you stay in yours". Overall, with your use of language, you've been really quite offensive.

the so called fact you stated previously is that i have it. you dont even know and the experiences ive been through my whole life and by a few posts you can tell i have it. c'mon

I said you will obviously have it since you're a Christian, and therefore will not look at an opposing religious book objectively. Are you somehow exempt from this effect?

well it was a whole different ball game and some serious stuff was going on so God has his reasons. he killed a lot of people who choose a life of evil back then. Jesus was baptised as part of his teachings. How can i discuss civily if you make agruments that dont add up like brawny what branwy said you were doing. Just a lot of your statements are showing you dont no much about christianity and getting confused with sterotypes like you did with condemning gays and stuff.

"God has his reasons"? That's a counter to everything. Holw do you know every person chose a "life of evil"? Please, bring some scientific evidence to back up your claims. Arguements that don't add up? Perhaps you're just not understanding things correctly. Fact of the matter is some that call themselves "Christians" do condemn gays. To call it a stereotype is to call that fact false. What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not knocking you personally. I'm pointing out something in Christianity. Of course, some people have their own 'perceptions' of what Christianity is. Also, of course, you're 100% wrong.

Trust me i dont do narcotics and am against its use. You'll probably think this is b/s but when i got baptised and excepted Jesus i felt overwhelmed by the holy spirit. it was the most amazing feel i have ever had. My life changed for the better to like when i commit a sin and help me realize mistakes I make and learn from them. Giving up summer vacations back in high school to work for free repairing houses and other construction work on people houses that are living in poverty. thats only a little bit, but like i said you wouldnt understand just by reading a post. All i can do here is talk the talk when you dont see me walk the walk. Christ is the best thing thats ever happened to me.

I wasn't suggesting you did narcotics, I was pointing out that "knowing" is all down to a confidence in one's perception. I'm glad you feel that you've got that harmony in your life. I'll accept it, so long as you accept that I have that same harmony without Christianity, and with that harmony comes reassurance.

well i took it as a compliment because i love my country and our freedom. Jesus says to obey our government and if it tells us to do evil things than it is better to be persicuted and sent to prison than do those evil things. Jesus would never tell me to stop them if it invovled commiting a sin to do it:aureola:

Your freedom? What exactly are you "free" to do? I said "stop them" not kill them.

i dont believe im above another, i'm just a miserable sinner like everyone else. Just saved by grace.

So please accept that your religious beliefs are not above anybody elses. That's all I'm asking. To live and let live.

well i do because mine is an absolute truth. How do you know what Christianity preaches so well. I think your fooling yourself. Lets make this easier for you to understand:

1. I dont believe one should force another's religion on someone but share it with the willing

2. I get along hanging out with others with different beliefs and if we don't accept each others beliefs, simply dont talk about. I believe my actions speak louder than words anyway.

3. If someone commits a sin (excluding misdemnors and felonies in our law like murder) i dont start yelling your going to hell or condemning them. that business is between them and God. Love the sinner hate the sin.

yea i'd say thats tolerant enoughut:

How very condescending of you. You comment on knowing the absolute truth. Also, I wasn't saying "I_Dont_Know859 goes around saying that gays are going to hell". What I was saying is that some self proclaimed Christians do.

Nah I believe on i'm the right track. I'm not understanding you cause you dont make much sense when it comes to me and why i believe it is an absolute truth. Brawny sums up why. Get over it. sheesh.

You're not understanding me, because you're close minded in this situation. I've never been saying that "Christianity is wrong and my way is right", what I've been saying is that perhaps there's the slightest possibility that you're wrong. End of discussion.

I'm sure God did. Stupid Satan started all this mess to begin with. Well he sent Jesus and I'm glad he did. Thankful to since the worlds getting more and more corrupt everyday. Jesus will take care of that when he returns though. Lets see, before Jesus there were the prophets to teach about sin.

The world isn't getting more and more corrupt. It's as corrupt as it always is, it's just we've got technology, the media and a values system that stems from pride. That's why it APPEARS more 'evil'.

Thank you Brawny. I just don't know why squall cant understand this.

It's not that I can't understand it. It's that I'm unwilling to accept that everything really is the way it is based on a book. Moreover, I'm unwilling to accept that the Bible is the whole truth and that the other books are lesser.

If you're just going to be obnoxious, we may as well end it now.

I say "live and let live" and that everyone's views are equal, and no more valid than the next person's. One word answer, do you agree with that last sentence?

 

[Kelso]

so i was going through a bunch of quotes looking for something to put in my grad write up, and i came across this beautifuly insightful quote which really sums up my main argument aginst most religions.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei