Pokemon X/Y

[Splash_King]

It's essentially an Ice-type version of the Normalize ability, 'cept actually useful. Well, assumin' Amaura has a usable Atk stat when fully evolved. Don't know what Special Normal-type moves would be more useful than good ol' Ice Beam. Though I ain't too sure what useful Physical Normal-type moves it could make use of... the only thing that comes t' mind is Facade, but it doesn't have Guts and therefore Facade abuse @ Orb is almost outta the question, as Toxic Orb is a dangerous thing t' mess with.

Speakin' of theorymon-ing, I wonder how useful Mega Garchomp will be. It's Speed is gettin' lowered in exchange for a (presumably large) boost to it's Sp.A, as well as Atk. Don't think it'l be used as a sweeper 'cause'a the Speed drop. Perhaps it could be used as a hole-puncher by abusin' Outrage and uninvested Draco Meteor. Sand Force-boosted EQ off of Mega Garchomp's bolstered Atk stat is also terrifying, even moreso than non-CB Landorus. Grounded Fairy-types beware.

I'm guessing they're more than likely going to switch more move types eventually?

IIRC there hasn't been any moves that switched type since Gen 1.

EDIT: It seems Curse changed to an actual type in Gen 4... well whatever, I was close enough.

 

[Neosquid]

I was lurking here during my hiatus and I had to resist coming on to correct Dirge.

You're forgetting about Return, which has a power of 102+ at max happiness, the "+" being there because Refrigerate is said to power up moves, not sure if it just means STAB or an actual power boost. Body Slam, which has 85+ base power, is not only cool for being more accurate than Icicle Crash, but it has a neat 30% paralysis chance. Amaura looks like the type to learn Body Slam, as well. Double Edge, which a lot of stuff learns, has a huge 120+ base power, which would be especially nice if Amarua has a high HP stat, which it likely does, looking at its design.

And then there's ExtremeSpeed, whic-- okay now I'm just joking

 

[Splash_King]

I'm assumin' it'l learn Avalanche, so I neglected to mention Return 'n Double-Edge.

Though ya've a valid point with Body Slam if Amaura has any bulky... and a decent Attack stat.

 

[Neosquid]

Avalanche is iffy, with that negative priority and its maximum power being activated by taking a hit on the turn its used. Who knows, maybe Amaura is the new Venusaur/Claydol/etc; looks slow but has a decent speed.

 

[Splash_King]

Avalanche is underrated, that's what it is. 120 BP with perfect accuracy ain't no joke behind an invested stat.

 

[Neosquid]

Never said it was bad. Not sure if you read my edit or not.

 

[Splash_King]

dunno lol

My point was, Avalanche > Body Slam on an offensive physical set. And we both know the only thing I ever think about is offense.

 

[Neosquid]

not on a fast poke

Even if it's slow, if the power boost is, say, 20%, I'd rather use a 102 base power move (Body Slam) with normal priority, guaranteed full power, and a 30% paralysis chance than Avalanche.

 

[Splash_King]

'Cept on an offensive set with full investment in Atk.

 

[Neosquid]

They each have their perks. It's just that Avalanche makes the user go last, and if you aren't attacked in that turn, it has a power of 60. Body Slam (especially with a power boost from Refrigerate), Return (it actually hits harder if Refrigerate boosts power by at least 20%), and Double Edge are a lot more reliable.

Avalanche can be very useful on (slow and preferably somewhat bulky) Pokemon that lack a physical ice type move with more potential power. Especially if they're Ice-type. Of course, there are no such moves, save Icicle Spear, which is a bit more unreliable aside from having normal priority (except on Cloyster). The thing is, the little ice dino will almost certainly have more reliable, and possibly more powerful, options.

 

[Mr. MR]

Rapid Spin might be actually useful as an attack... assuming it could get Rabid Spin.
Or a super powered icy Explosion

 

[Splash_King]

Well, no. Rapid Spin would still be terribly weak no matter how large the boost from Refrigerate is.

Boosted Explosion is terrifying... er, as terrifyin' as it used t' be anyways.

They each have their perks. It's just that Avalanche makes the user go last, and if you aren't attacked in that turn, it has a power of 60. Body Slam (especially with a power boost from Refrigerate), Return (it actually hits harder if Refrigerate boosts power by at least 20%), and Double Edge are a lot more reliable.

Avalanche can be very useful on (slow and preferably somewhat bulky) Pokemon that lack a physical ice type move with more potential power. Especially if they're Ice-type. Of course, there are no such moves, save Icicle Spear, which is a bit more unreliable aside from having normal priority (except on Cloyster). The thing is, the little ice dino will almost certainly have more reliable, and possibly more powerful, options.

All I'm hearing is "unreliability < 120 BP". Which is nonsense when it comes to an offensive tank/hole-puncher set.

... So, does Refrigerate only boost Normal-type moves?

 

[Neosquid]

Well, no. Rapid Spin would still be terribly weak no matter how large the boost from Refrigerate is.

I don't think MR meant that it would be used to damage things.

All I'm hearing is "unreliability < 120 BP". Which is nonsense when it comes to an offensive tank/hole-puncher set.

... So, does Refrigerate only boost Normal-type moves?

Opponent switches out? 60 base power. Opponent uses Moonlight? 60 base power. Opponent is a Sunflora? You get outsped and killed.

Meanwhile, you could be smacking opponents with normal priority moves that have guaranteed 85/102/120 base power. Possibly higher, depending on how Refrigerate works. And yes, going by the wording, I think it only boosts normal type moves.

If it doesn't boost normal type moves aside from STAB, your argument for Avalanche over Body Slam is certainly valid, though personally I'd rather be using Body Slam. The reliability of Return and Double Edge would still make them better than Avalanche, imo.

 

[The Storm]

Then again, squid, you can go all day with your body slam... But you'll never have type advantage when it comes to normal moves as opposed to avalanche. You could always hit something hard. And from your scenario,
If sunflora would switch in it would get almost killed by super effective avalanche wouldn't it?

 

[Splash_King]

storm refrigerate changes normal moves to ice type lol

I don't think MR meant that it would be used to damage things.


Opponent switches out? 60 base power. Opponent uses Moonlight? 60 base power. Opponent is a Sunflora? You get outsped and killed.

Meanwhile, you could be smacking opponents with normal priority moves that have guaranteed 85/102/120 base power. Possibly higher, depending on how Refrigerate works. And yes, going by the wording, I think it only boosts normal type moves.

If it doesn't boost normal type moves aside from STAB, your argument for Avalanche over Body Slam is certainly valid, though personally I'd rather be using Body Slam. The reliability of Return and Double Edge would still make them better than Avalanche, imo.

... But that wouldn't make sense since Rapid Spin is already useful.

If Refrigerate only boosts Normal-type moves, that's dumb. And also makes Return more useful. In the case it doesn't, you can't ignore that 18 BP. It'l be important t' secure a KO on a specific Poke with a specific EV spread, guaranteed. The only question is, will that Poke be a threat in Amaura's tier and thus make my situational argument at all viable?

Return versus Avalanche in this scenario is akin to Rock Slide versus Stone Edge. The extra power WILL be worth the downside in certain situations. It's only a matter of whether or not said situations will crop up often.