Does God exist?

[navarre]

Napalmbrain, a thought occurs: do you wish to 'convert' people to atheism, and if so then why? Or perhaps, why not? I can't lie and say Christianity does not actively seek converts- it didn't get to be the largest religion in history by apologetically confining its existence!

 

[dan99iel]

Napalmbrain, a thought occurs: do you wish to 'convert' people to atheism, and if so then why? Or perhaps, why not? I can't lie and say Christianity does not actively seek converts- it didn't get to be the largest religion in history by apologetically confining its existence!

I doubt he does. I think he's smart enough to accept that other people have different views about things.

 

[Napalmbrain]

Napalmbrain, a thought occurs: do you wish to 'convert' people to atheism, and if so then why? Or perhaps, why not? I can't lie and say Christianity does not actively seek converts- it didn't get to be the largest religion in history by apologetically confining its existence!

No, I don't wish 'convert' anyone, because it's not my place to tell you what to believe (nor is it anyone else's place to tell me what to believe). However, I would like to encourage scepticism over dogmatism.

 

[AndThen?]

Napalmbrain, a thought occurs: do you wish to 'convert' people to atheism, and if so then why? Or perhaps, why not? I can't lie and say Christianity does not actively seek converts- it didn't get to be the largest religion in history by apologetically confining its existence!

I feel as though so many people are born having a certain religion drilled into their minds. Atheistic education is something that I feel needs to be provided. I'd personally never try to "convert" anyone, just educate them about what I believe and why... but ultimately it's up to the individual to decide what they believe. I just wish people were better educated before they made those decisions.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

Napalmbrain, a thought occurs: do you wish to 'convert' people to atheism, and if so then why? Or perhaps, why not? I can't lie and say Christianity does not actively seek converts- it didn't get to be the largest religion in history by apologetically confining its existence!

I feel as though so many people are born having a certain religion drilled into their minds. Atheistic education is something that I feel needs to be provided. I'd personally never try to "convert" anyone, just educate them about what I believe and why... but ultimately it's up to the individual to decide what they believe. I just wish people were better educated before they made those decisions.

While you have that brought up, this speaker does a good job talking about it in the beginning, but then also speaks about atheism.

[video=youtube;E2s14T6x5AM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2s14T6x5AM[/video]

 

[Espmaster_]

"Does God exist?"
[video=youtube;vWizDna1XO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWizDna1XO4[/video]

 

[Napalmbrain]

While you have that brought up, this speaker does a good job talking about it in the beginning, but then also speaks about atheism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2s14T6x5AM

I watched your video, and while I'll admit the speaker was better than most creationists, bear in mind that some of the verses he cites are rather vague and thus can be made to fit almost anything you want. Take the 'Big Bang verse': It just states that the Heavens and the Earth were torn asunder from a single piece. As it stands, it could just as easily fit the Biblical creation myth as it could the Big Bang. If the verse has been more specific, e.g. stating that the single piece was infinitely small or that the Earth didn't come until long after the 'Heavens', then it would be more impressive. Also, some of the things he states were in fact already known when the Qur'an was written- for example, the ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round.

I'm not going to waste my time refuting his intelligent design argument, because I've already explained about a thousand times in this thread why it's unscientific.

 

[navarre]

Napalmbrain, what would make you believe?

 

[AnnieOh!]

Why are you discussing this in the Wii Forum?

Seriously, there are sites for theological, spiritual and philosophical discussions.
Take it there.

Ahhh...never mind. I'm new here. Just saw that this is the "Lounge," for off topics.

hmmm...interesting.

 

[MysticPez]

..... I don't know to be honest i'm athiest... so you could say i'm a non believer

 

[Napalmbrain]

Napalmbrain, what would make you believe?

Good question. I'm a sceptic, so it would take something quite substantial to make me believe. For example, if an amputee prayed to God to have his limbs back, and the next day he wakes and there they are, as if they were never gone.

Note that no amount of arguments from design are going to convince me God exists- what you see as God's work could just as easily be chalked up to some natural process we haven't figured out yet (and that's assuming I don't already know how it works, as is the case with evolution or the Earth's formation).

I know Christians like to say that 'you need to have faith', but to me that's not good enough. Why should I have faith? And why should I have faith in your religion rather than any other? I have no more reason to believe in Christianity than I have to believe in Islam, Buddhism, or even Raëlism.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

While you have that brought up, this speaker does a good job talking about it in the beginning, but then also speaks about atheism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2s14T6x5AM

I watched your video, and while I'll admit the speaker was better than most creationists, bear in mind that some of the verses he cites are rather vague and thus can be made to fit almost anything you want. Take the 'Big Bang verse': It just states that the Heavens and the Earth were torn asunder from a single piece. As it stands, it could just as easily fit the Biblical creation myth as it could the Big Bang. If the verse has been more specific, e.g. stating that the single piece was infinitely small or that the Earth didn't come until long after the 'Heavens', then it would be more impressive. Also, some of the things he states were in fact already known when the Qur'an was written- for example, the ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round.

I'm not going to waste my time refuting his intelligent design argument, because I've already explained about a thousand times in this thread why it's unscientific.

I admit that Greeks knew many things that most people never thought they did. However, they were also wrong about many things, some of which came about due to lack of equipment. Even at the time the Qur'an was revealed (again, I'm not on some crazy convert mission or anything), this information was absolutely ahead of its time by well over a thousand years. None of the information that was found later to be incorrect is found in the Qur'an, only and only the things they were right about. I can give many examples of the wrong beliefs that the Greeks had that were accepted as truth at the time. You don't find scientific errors or even a single contradiction in the Qur'an. It is also the same exact word for word since it was first revealed.

And I realize that any intelligent design argument can't move you as you have already justified in your mind other reasons behind design with no designer.

 

[Shadow*91]

that's cause intelligent design is not proof, its deists believing that the science behind things is the proof.

while its true that the qur'an has yet to be proven wrong, that doesn't mean it proves god or a higher power. all it proves was that it was written by the smartest person/people of the time. nothing more, nothing less.


and i'm with Napalm about the belief thing. it would take some fantastic impossible miracle to prove a higher power, short of the highern power revealing itself. one of the two.

 

[Doomsteady]

wow, every one is still blowin this thread up........ while both sides make good points,the anwer to the question is obvious, but in the mean time, I say that people can believe whatever they want to and we should respect those views and not try to force opinions on others. Of course were still gonna have those extremist...hmmmmm.

 

[her01771]

Does God exist? Here are six straight-forward reasons to believe that God is really there.

By Marilyn Adamson

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.
But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.
When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4
Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5
Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.
The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.
2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9
Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10
The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.
3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.
How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?
"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11
Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12
4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!
Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.
Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.
I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."
Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16
Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.
Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.
If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."
God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20
So, does God exist? Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way. If you need more information about Jesus' claim to divinity, or about God's existence, or if you have similar important questions, please email us.

I just asked Jesus into my life (some helpful information follows)...

I may want to ask Jesus into my life, please explain this more fully...

I have a question or comment...

About the Author: As a former atheist, Marilyn Adamson found it difficult to refute the continuously answered prayers and quality of life of a close friend. In challenging the beliefs of her friend, Marilyn was amazed to learn the wealth of objective evidence pointing to the existence of God. After about a year of persistent questioning, she responded to God's offer to come into her life and has found faith in Him to be constantly substantiated and greatly rewarding.
(1) Romans 1:19-21
(2) Jeremiah 29:13-14
(3) R.E.D. Clark, Creation (London: Tyndale Press, 1946), p. 20
(4) The Wonders of God's Creation, Moody Institute of Science (Chicago, IL)
(5) Ibid.
(6) Ibid.
(7) Ibid.
(8) Hugh Davson, Physiology of the Eye, 5th ed (New York: McGraw Hill, 1991)
(9) Robert Jastrow; "Message from Professor Robert Jastrow"; LeaderU.com; 2002.
(10) Steven Weinberg; The First Three Minutes: A Modern View of the Origin of the Universe; (Basic Books,1988); p 5.
(11) Dinesh D'Souza, What's So Great about Christianity; (Regnery Publishing, Inc, 2007, chapter 11).
(12) Richard Feynman, The Meaning of It All: Thoughts of a Citizen-Scientist (New York: BasicBooks, 1998), 43.
(13) Francis S. Collins, director of the Human Genome Project, and author of The Language of God, (Free Press, New York, NY), 2006
(14) John 8:12
(15) John 14:6
(16) John 14:11
(17) Jeremiah 31:3
(18) John 3:16
(10) Revelation 3:20
(20) John 10:27-29
since i cant argue, minus well use this.
the source: http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html