Does God exist?

[Shadow*91]

1-4 are intelligent design, which does not prove any type of god.

5 is the authors personal belief which can be interpreted differently by everyone.(i think the author is trying to justify her sudden conversion)

and 6 does not prove god. there may have been a person called jesus that went around preaching about god, but the miracles cannot be proven to have happened so jesus is just a story until proven otherwise.

 

[Napalmbrain]

I admit that Greeks knew many things that most people never thought they did. However, they were also wrong about many things, some of which came about due to lack of equipment. Even at the time the Qur'an was revealed (again, I'm not on some crazy convert mission or anything), this information was absolutely ahead of its time by well over a thousand years. None of the information that was found later to be incorrect is found in the Qur'an, only and only the things they were right about. I can give many examples of the wrong beliefs that the Greeks had that were accepted as truth at the time. You don't find scientific errors or even a single contradiction in the Qur'an. It is also the same exact word for word since it was first revealed.

Of course the ancient Greeks were wrong about some things, what does that prove?

Since you seem so keen to talk about "scientific foresight" in the Qur'an, let's take a look:

See ye not how Allah hath created seven heavens in harmony
And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp ?

This verse implies the Moon produces its own light, which of course, it doesn't.

(Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he is your chief who taught you magic. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees, and ye shall know for certain which of us hath sterner and more lasting punishment.

The ancient Egyptians did not practice crucifiction.

And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?
Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.

Here it states that no creatures practice homosexuality, but in fact, it has been observed in many animal species.

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

Since the Earth is round and rotates, how can there be a "setting place" of the Sun? This verse seems to indicate the writer believed in a flat earth.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

I admit that Greeks knew many things that most people never thought they did. However, they were also wrong about many things, some of which came about due to lack of equipment. Even at the time the Qur'an was revealed (again, I'm not on some crazy convert mission or anything), this information was absolutely ahead of its time by well over a thousand years. None of the information that was found later to be incorrect is found in the Qur'an, only and only the things they were right about. I can give many examples of the wrong beliefs that the Greeks had that were accepted as truth at the time. You don't find scientific errors or even a single contradiction in the Qur'an. It is also the same exact word for word since it was first revealed.

Of course the ancient Greeks were wrong about some things, what does that prove?

Since you seem so keen to talk about "scientific foresight" in the Qur'an, let's take a look:

See ye not how Allah hath created seven heavens in harmony
And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp ?

This verse implies the Moon produces its own light, which of course, it doesn't.


The ancient Egyptians did not practice crucifiction.

And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?
Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.

Here it states that no creatures practice homosexuality, but in fact, it has been observed in many animal species.

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

Since the Earth is round and rotates, how can there be a "setting place" of the Sun? This verse seems to indicate the writer believed in a flat earth.

Firstly, the reason I brought up the 'scientific foresight' in the Qur'an was because the video I put up mentioned much of it. We're not here to dispute verses, and if we are, the setting would be different. You would post several verses before and after so that the text within its own context would be most properly understood as it is meant to be. One verse taken from random chapters (as correct as the translated verses may be) is not sufficient to prove something. I suggest we stay away from this topic (unless you yourself are truly curious and not on a deliberate hunt to find errors or fallacies even when they don't exist).

 

[Napalmbrain]

Firstly, the reason I brought up the 'scientific foresight' in the Qur'an was because the video I put up mentioned much of it. We're not here to dispute verses, and if we are, the setting would be different. You would post several verses before and after so that the text within its own context would be most properly understood as it is meant to be. One verse taken from random chapters (as correct as the translated verses may be) is not sufficient to prove something. I suggest we stay away from this topic (unless you yourself are truly curious and not on a deliberate hunt to find errors or fallacies even when they don't exist).

Funny how you were okay with using particular verses to prove the claims in that video...

Well whatever, if you're going to invoke special pleading then I'm not interested in debating it.

 

[osama*]

whoa, I'm suprised this thread hasn't been locked lol
last 2 places I started this thread got closed within 200 posts
anyway
I don't believe in god
But this thread can never be brought to an answer
There is no way to prove god exists. No way to prove he doesn't
but if he did exist, would it be that hard for god to pop his head out and say "hey I'm real"
people believe in god because they want someone there for them, to "help" them.
They can believe all they like, they think they are blessed, that might make some peoples lives better. It might teach them not to kill....or the opposite

but it doesn't matter how much you believe, "god" will never help you.

 

[Doomsteady]

whoa, I'm suprised this thread hasn't been locked lol
last 2 places I started this thread got closed within 200 posts
anyway
I don't believe in god
But this thread can never be brought to an answer
There is no way to prove god exists. No way to prove he doesn't
but if he did exist, would it be that hard for god to pop his head out and say "hey I'm real"
people believe in god because they want someone there for them, to "help" them.
They can believe all they like, they think they are blessed, that might make some peoples lives better. It might teach them not to kill....or the opposite

but it doesn't matter how much you believe, "god" will never help you.

Just to shine some light on that last part, You say "god" will never help you, but how would you explain that to a successful person who gives god the credit for their success. It all comes back to what Shadow91 said. Therre are tons of ways to interpret things (like that persons success). A rich person might thank a god, whereas a person who might not be so happy or successful might conclude that here is no god because of the poverty and wars and violence we see today. Another reason people dont really believe in gods (And Im not saying that this is why YOU dont) is because many gods were thought up and created by man. Take the olympian gods for example.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

Firstly, the reason I brought up the 'scientific foresight' in the Qur'an was because the video I put up mentioned much of it. We're not here to dispute verses, and if we are, the setting would be different. You would post several verses before and after so that the text within its own context would be most properly understood as it is meant to be. One verse taken from random chapters (as correct as the translated verses may be) is not sufficient to prove something. I suggest we stay away from this topic (unless you yourself are truly curious and not on a deliberate hunt to find errors or fallacies even when they don't exist).

Funny how you were okay with using particular verses to prove the claims in that video...

Well whatever, if you're going to invoke special pleading then I'm not interested in debating it.

What particular verses was I okay with using to prove claims in the video? And if you want me to, I will explain those verses, but you have to present them in a well...presentable fashion. I'm not 'pleading'.

 

[Napalmbrain]

What particular verses was I okay with using to prove claims in the video?

I'm talking about the verses Dr. Naik uses in the video you posted.

And if you want me to, I will explain those verses, but you have to present them in a well...presentable fashion. I'm not 'pleading'.

'Special pleading' is the logical fallacy of applying a double standard to your own argument without explanation. In this case, you were okay with Dr. Naik using single verses to argue his case that the Qur'an is correct, but when I try to point out problematic verses in the Qur'an, then you claim that one verse is not sufficient to prove anything and I'm just looking for errors where they don't exist, but you don't explain that.

And what exactly do you mean by a "presentable fashion"?

 

[osama*]

whoa, I'm suprised this thread hasn't been locked lol
last 2 places I started this thread got closed within 200 posts
anyway
I don't believe in god
But this thread can never be brought to an answer
There is no way to prove god exists. No way to prove he doesn't
but if he did exist, would it be that hard for god to pop his head out and say "hey I'm real"
people believe in god because they want someone there for them, to "help" them.
They can believe all they like, they think they are blessed, that might make some peoples lives better. It might teach them not to kill....or the opposite

but it doesn't matter how much you believe, "god" will never help you.

Just to shine some light on that last part, You say "god" will never help you, but how would you explain that to a successful person who gives god the credit for their success. It all comes back to what Shadow91 said. Therre are tons of ways to interpret things (like that persons success). A rich person might thank a god, whereas a person who might not be so happy or successful might conclude that here is no god because of the poverty and wars and violence we see today. Another reason people dont really believe in gods (And Im not saying that this is why YOU dont) is because many gods were thought up and created by man. Take the olympian gods for example.

you can explain god to a sucessful person all you want, they might believe you, but probly not. But if their life was exactly the same, but didn't believe in god, his life will still be the same. And I am doing well in life without god
What about all the poor people that live in poverty, THE HAITIANS, most of them probably believe in god. But he killed thousands of them, and destroyed there houses. Plz explain?
I just want to know one thing.
How do you think god is, how do you imagine him?
Is he an old man with a beard, guiding nearly 7 billion people through their lives???

God did not create man. Man created god
Think of why some gods have been phased out.
Greek gods....the lightning gods, rain gods etc, all gone because science has a pratical, possible explination.
Just wait and all the world will be athiest. Hehheh

 

[navarre]

Just wait and all the world will be athiest. Hehheh

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the truth is, around 90-97 % of the world's population is theistic. Yes, that's right. Despite all our scientific advances and secularism becoming prominent, an overwhelming majority of people still remain theists. If atheism ever does take over the world, you have a long way to wait before it does... another ten thousand years or so?

 

[Napalmbrain]

Just wait and all the world will be athiest. Hehheh

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the truth is, around 90-97 % of the world's population is theistic. Yes, that's right. Despite all our scientific advances and secularism becoming prominent, an overwhelming majority of people still remain theists. If atheism ever does take over the world, you have a long way to wait before it does... another ten thousand years or so?

Always be cautious when it comes to religious statistics. You can get very different results depending on the precise question asked. For example, according to the last UK census, a little under 72% of the population is Christian, yet various polls suggest less that less than half the people in the UK actually believe in a God (link).

So will atheism ever "take over"? Possibly in places like Europe and Japan, but it's certainly not going to dominate the world in the foreseeable future. I mean, the two most popular religions alone still claim over half the world's population.

 

[her01771]

hehe and when it does god will be pissed at u all and burn the earth. no kiddin.

 

[Shadow*91]

let him. it proves us wrong, at which point many will likely get down on their knees and start parying for forgiveness. till then though, i don't believe

 

[Napalmbrain]

hehe and when it does god will be pissed at u all and burn the earth. no kiddin.

Well I'm certainly not going to worship any childish God who acts like that.

 

[ARav989]

Exactly. And assuming we're wrong, then I'd be happy to get on my knees and pray. Because then that's evidence. But until then, I'm happy with knowing I'll rot in the ground after I die.