Christians

[Solard]

God died did he?

ehh, Jesus did according to the Bible.

imo (i have unique views imo ) God would send a gay person to heaven because no sin is greater than Jesus's death...

/edit not that that was a sin

 

[Gaz]

so because jesus is dead, and he can't be killed agian, no one will go to hell. good, you 'christains' need to re-think your belifes.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

so because jesus is dead, and he can't be killed agian, no one will go to hell. good, you 'christains' need to re-think your belifes.

why?

 

[Solard]

so because jesus is dead, and he can't be killed agian, no one will go to hell. good, you 'christains' need to re-think your belifes.

no, you need to interpret the posts better... i dont understand where you drew up no one going to hell? have you been reading the posts thoroughly ? they say in at least 5 that he
A.Rose Again
B. Died in the first place so that sin was payed for (that is debated it seems though...)
C. i don't have a C. but everyone likes their ABC's

(and someone indeed said that whoops on my part )

 

[NateTheGreat]

i just didnt know why you made the comment about planning on putting an asterisk next to "Fighter for Freedom" with an accompanying one that reads except for religion. but ya know whatever, i know you like to make those little comments.

Sorry, I said that because I assumed (which in itself should be a sin; no joke it should be if there already isn't already one that's similar) that you wouldn't fight for a bunch of atheists (whom I don't agree with, just to let you know; that religion or anti-religion is rather dull to me) freedom to be aetheist, which probably doesn't make a lot of sense either. I was being snarky. I'll chill out.

 

[linkzeldagame]

Whoa this debate is just about the best on this forum. I hope it doesn't draw people who are just stupid enough to blindly believe the bible and claim its the whole truth to everything. There was a person on a forum I used to be on ages ago and he/she responded to the most logical arguements given to him/her by dissing them and replacing their logic with emotional attacks and using prejudice to attack back.

I don't agree with Atheists or Christians either - their beliefs are either too hollow or they have too many flaws.

Atheism seems to me a way of escaping the difficult questions in Life by dissing the whole god and jesus/prophet and using that to explain away stuff that goes on around them.

Christians are on the other extreme by replacing the the unexplainable with God and Jesus and believing they have everything worked out for them because they believe that God saves them from 'sin'.

In actual fact, no one has control over their lives but they can do their best to buffer themselves from unexpected/potentially dangerous or harmful events. The God / No God thing is just a way of buffering yourself from emotional/personal harm that may happen as a result of life and how you reacted to certain events and personal conflicts.

 

[ssbb_lover]

I agree with the first part. No one is perfect and we can't help, but make mistakes. I find that where Christianity is flawed is in the fact that it separates sinners and non-sinners. It says those who sin and do not repent, whether they're Christian or otherwise, are destined for hell while those that do, which includes murders, rapists, etc., will make it to though the pearly gates. The truth is there can be no good if there is no bad. You must have something to compare and also, being completely good is just as bad as being completely evil. If you don't have a choice, then you cease to be human.

Christianity doesn't separate the sinner and the non-sinner as your thinking of it, the Christian separates human (sinner) and God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (non-sinner and absolutely holy). We as man can't go through those "pearly gates" until we except Jesus Christ as our savior and repent our sins. We're always sinning, we can never "not sin", but we can try to be like Jesus and follow His commandments as well as we can, and by asking the Holy Spirit to help us along the way. "It says those who sin and do not repent..." I just want to ask, what do you mean by "it"? The Bible? Christianity? I'm guessing your saying Christianity, but what do you mean when you say everyone is destined for hell, but those that do are going to heaven? That sentence doesn't make since (grammar wise ) We're all destined for hell, that's true, but if you ask Jesus to wash away your sins and help us guide along the way to absolute righteousness.

Christianity does the same thing with life and death, making them out to be separate when really, death is a part of life and without death, there is no life. When babies are being formed, they technically aren't alive for an amount of time because they have no pulse nor any brain activity, so they really aren't humans so much as just masses of cells; we say someone is dead when they lack these two attributes.

In the Christian's view, man is dead until he excepts Jesus. He (the Christian) says that man is dead (spiritually), but alive (physically), this won't matter when that person dies because then he will be dead both physically and spiritually, and will spend an eternity of death in hell. However, if he becomes a true Christian, then he will become spiritually alive, then when that person dies, he is dead physically (which obviously doesn't matter anymore) and alive spiritually (allowing him to exist in eternity w/ God).

I don't understand either, why certain parts of the bible are taken for truth by some while others are seen as metaphorical and yet everyone still goes to heaven while someone who might view it as all metaphorical is generally seen as less Christian. Jesus, a revolutionary man of faith, was not about condemning those that differed from him, but instead sharing his beliefs to those who would listen, whether they be rich, poor, black, white, etc.

What do you mean everyone still goes to Heaven? Only the remnant (those who have been purified by Jesus and are given the title of "Christian") are allowed to come into Heaven. Just so you know, saying things like "pearly gates" and the "Big Man's House" is totally false, it's not a "place" rather than the mind of God. In eternity, everything has already happened, it is the mind of God, and like I said only the remnant are allowed to enter. The heaven you're talking about is the nice sweet clouds, giant mansion and sunshine place where everyone goes after they die (as well as pets :frown2: ), but it's not! When you talk about Jesus just talking "to those who would listen", it sounds like He's just hoping that ppl will walk by and hopefully listen to what He's saying. This isn't true in that Jesus picks and chooses the men who will follow him, he doesn't have to work around man. I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to point that out.

I guess I'm saying Christians can go to their respective heaven or hell, but personally I'm not interested in going to either. Sorry if that's a sin. Oh, and please refrain from the tired "Well, I'll pray for you" retort (not talking directly to you Skippy, just to any Christians reading this) as I know you probably won't and if you do, you're wasting your breath.

Do you really think anyone here would say that? :lol:

I guess is your opinion, and i'll have to respect that, but honestly I hope (and I do pray) that in some way or form you will at least just be enlightened a little, so that it can all go from there.

One of Jesus's most famous quotes for a believer is (he's talking about converting ppl), "go [make believers] as you are going". He's saying that you don't force it, but as you are going.

 

[Gaz]

no, you need to interpret the posts better... i dont understand where you drew up no one going to hell? have you been reading the posts thoroughly ? they say in at least 5 that he
A.Rose Again
B. Died in the first place so that sin was payed for (that is debated it seems though...)
C. i don't have a C. but everyone likes their ABC's

(and someone indeed said that whoops on my part )

You need to understand what your writing better, i'm only interpreting it the way it is written.

Look is jesus still alive after what 2000 odd years, eeeer well, i don't see no holly man walking around, so i will take it as a no, so he is dead, no sin is greater than his death, well he is dead..

 

[NateTheGreat]

Christianity doesn't separate the sinner and the non-sinner as your thinking of it, the Christian separates human (sinner) and God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (non-sinner and absolutely holy). We as man can't go through those "pearly gates" until we except Jesus Christ as our savior and repent our sins. We're always sinning, we can never "not sin", but we can try to be like Jesus and follow His commandments as well as we can, and by asking the Holy Spirit to help us along the way. "It says those who sin and do not repent..." I just want to ask, what do you mean by "it"? The Bible? Christianity? I'm guessing your saying Christianity, but what do you mean when you say everyone is destined for hell, but those that do are going to heaven? That sentence doesn't make since (grammar wise ) We're all destined for hell, that's true, but if you ask Jesus to wash away your sins and help us guide along the way to absolute righteousness.

You're right, I should have phrased that differently. Christianity separates sin and wholeness. God/Jesus/heaven represent the good and wholly while the the devil/hell/sins represent evil. That's an obvious separation when really, nothing can be all good and nothing all bad. God is just as much the devil as he is wholly and good. If either God or Satan didn't exist, then the other couldn't exist either.

In the Christian's view, man is dead until he excepts Jesus. He (the Christian) says that man is dead (spiritually), but alive (physically), this won't matter when that person dies because then he will be dead both physically and spiritually, and will spend an eternity of death in hell. However, if he becomes a true Christian, then he will become spiritually alive, then when that person dies, he is dead physically (which obviously doesn't matter anymore) and alive spiritually (allowing him to exist in eternity w/ God).

Well said. Basically, though many believers wouldn't admit it, Christianity is really a philosophy, not a religion.

What do you mean everyone still goes to Heaven? Only the remnant (those who have been purified by Jesus and are given the title of "Christian") are allowed to come into Heaven. Just so you know, saying things like "pearly gates" and the "Big Man's House" is totally false, it's not a "place" rather than the mind of God. In eternity, everything has already happened, it is the mind of God, and like I said only the remnant are allowed to enter. The heaven you're talking about is the nice sweet clouds, giant mansion and sunshine place where everyone goes after they die (as well as pets :frown2: ), but it's not! When you talk about Jesus just talking "to those who would listen", it sounds like He's just hoping that ppl will walk by and hopefully listen to what He's saying. This isn't true in that Jesus picks and chooses the men who will follow him, he doesn't have to work around man. I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to point that out.

When I said "everyone still goes to heaven," I was saying many Christians interpret the bible differently; some believe a lot of it is true, with some metaphors while other believe it's mostly metaphorical, but with some true events.

Now, I'm no Christian, but I do know that a great many Christians believe heaven and hell as actual places. My family is almost completely Christian, save my mom and I and a few others, and they speak of these as places. I like your interpretation better: the mind of god. Now, if I were Christian, that's how I would see heaven. Just a few weeks ago, a good friend of mine, Quentin, basically gave me what I call the "Jesus-speech." He first asked me what I thought about Christianity and then said heaven and hell are real places. In response, I said something which I said a while back I believe in this very thread, which was "You can believe what you want, but heaven and hell are just metaphors to me. War/killing/raping/etc. is hell and peace/love/etc. are heaven." I meant every word.

Also, when I was talking about Jesus basically spreading Christianity "to whoever would listen," I was talking about Jesus the man, not Jesus in the terms Christians do. Jesus was a Jewish teacher from Galilee, who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified in Jerusalem on orders of the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate under the accusation of sedition against the Roman Empire. Source

Do you really think anyone here would say that? :lol:

Would? Did. Go here. It's happened a couple times and when I hear it, all I think is superiority complex.

I guess is your opinion, and i'll have to respect that, but honestly I hope (and I do pray) that in some way or form you will at least just be enlightened a little, so that it can all go from there.

Thanks, I guess, though you still did what I asked you not to, but you probably didn't mean to; God meant you to, I'm sure. I also find it funny, a Christian telling me, a person not tied to any religion, yet who doesn't condemn those that are, tells me I'm not enlightened.

One of Jesus's most famous quotes for a believer is (he's talking about converting ppl), "go [make believers] as you are going". He's saying that you don't force it, but as you are going.

That's an interesting quote. Too bad so many Christians, mainly of the past, didn't read that in the way that you did. A good example of what I'm illuding to is the Inquisition

One of the problems with religion, especially Christianity, is that it seems to cause more harm that help. The war in Iraq is a great example of this as well, different religious sects battling it out for "the Promised land."

I've said a few of these things before, in another thread, but I'm feeling lazy, so here's a quote I used in that other thread that I can relate to:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” - Ghandi


Glad this debate has kept friendly.

 

[Solard]

that quote was true. if you really want someone to hate Christianity send them to a private Christian school. i went there for 7th grade (it was fun because i'd been previously homeschooled) and there views were retarded. When prez elections came up, not once, but twice did someone PRAY that Kerry was killed in the election :lol: of course they were all reguirgitating (sry for bad spelling ) what there parents prayed at mealtimes so thats no real encouragement... There is a fine line that Christians always want to straddle when it comes to things, especially things that affect/effect [ugh:sick: ] others. Thats why, at the beginning of my first post, I said i was not part of mainstream Cristianity for they are too radical on everything ie abortion, elections, gay marriage, things that have little/nothing to do with them (i guess the election does, but they voted for Bush simply because he was Christian and hated Clinton for some reason or another *cough*scandal*cough :lol: but that doesnt have to do with leading a country lmao). (and i DID say, at core, we believe the same stuff (except they were Baptists) )

And Gaz, I see where you are confused and i guess you can call it my fault if you want >:[ but i did state in one of the verses that he rose again, and you say why is there no holy man walking around today? well i really simply thought that the fact he went back to heaven was understood amongst every1 discussing.

 

[ssbb_lover]

(but that doesnt have to do with leading a country lmao).

True, but being a pussy does.

Also, Nate, good retort. I would keep quoting everything you said and debating it...but, I should probably get back to school. (>^.^)>

 

[Solard]

:lol: lmao... how do people get on forums from school??? (i am homeschooled so it is easy for me...) it is a sad truth. and why are all homeschoolers Christian omg? ive never heard of/met one that is not... lmao... homeschoolers are nerds :sick: :scared: but just not me >.> lmao...

 

[ssbb_lover]

:lol: lmao... how do people get on forums from school??? (i am homeschooled so it is easy for me...) it is a sad truth. and why are all homeschoolers Christian omg? ive never heard of/met one that is not... lmao... homeschoolers are nerds :sick: :scared: but just not me >.> lmao...

>.> How do you think I get on?! I homeschool. And if you're not a nerd i'm in NO WAY A NERD. :lol: Jk, but I think everyone on this site is a nerd at least a lil' bit, even if it's not to do w/ gamin . Also, the reason why most homeschoolers are Christian, is because most ppl don't want their kids to get mixed in w/ that public school ****, it corrupts your mind if you fall for it. :sick: So, the Christian families, to make sure their kids get a good, Christian upbringing, teach their own kids, that way they know what's being put into their minds.

*EDIT* When I say, "good Christian upbringing", i'm in now way saying that being brought up as a Christian is the only way to grow up good, I just mean that's the typical mindset of Christian parents.

 

[Skippy]

God is just as much the devil as he is wholly and good. If either God or Satan didn't exist, then the other couldn't exist either.

That's not a Biblically based belief. Of course God can (and did) exist without Satan (and will again).

God existed before everything else and created all things. And Jesus was the firstborn of creation, so even he existed long before the devil or any angels. The Devil was not created as the devil. He was a spirit creature (angel or what have you) just like all the rest. But he used his free will to turn again God and also deceived Adam and Eve to get them to turn against God too. The Bible says he "was not holding to the truth" and is "a liar and the father of the lie" (John 8:44)
That is basically when he became the Devil or Satan, which are actually descriptive titles meaning "slanderer" and "resistor". So he lies about God and resists, or opposes him. Many other angels followed his path (the Bible says that about 1/3 of them). And the Bible also tells us that after Christ's 1000 year reign, Satan and all those who follow him will be totally and permanently destroyed. So then that will be another time when God exists without Satan.

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” - Ghandi

Excellent and true quote!

 

[Deathmetalmaster]

That's not a Biblically based belief. Of course God can (and did) exist without Satan (and will again).

God existed before everything else and created all things. And Jesus was the firstborn of creation, so even he existed long before the devil or any angels. The Devil was not created as the devil. He was a spirit creature (angel or what have you) just like all the rest. But he used his free will to turn again God and also deceived Adam and Eve to get them to turn against God too. The Bible says he "was not holding to the truth" and is "a liar and the father of the lie" (John 8:44)
That is basically when he became the Devil or Satan, which are actually descriptive titles meaning "slanderer" and "resistor". So he lies about God and resists, or opposes him. Many other angels followed his path (the Bible says that about 1/3 of them). And the Bible also tells us that after Christ's 1000 year reign, Satan and all those who follow him will be totally and permanently destroyed. So then that will be another time when God exists without Satan.




Excellent and true quote!

Your arguement is one sided. The bible is a text written by man. Interperet the book to better your life if you want. There is nothing wrong with this. However putting faith in the almighty "god" is ridiculous in my opinion. How many religions have their been since the beginning of time? a **** load. Who is to say which of them is right? The greeks? the romans? the vikings? the mesopotamians?

you cant go around saying there is a god and a satan because YOU PERSONALLY do not know. Anyone can read a book, but unless the book is non-fiction, the reader can not be expected to believe everything they read.

there are no burning bushes that make laws for mankind. No angels and demons battling for heaven, and there is no dark lord who dwells with in the abyss called hell, willing to torture the "sinners" for all time. A belief is nothing more than an idea... a widely accepted idea, but none the less, JUST an idea. No validity comes from the words of man.