Your opinion of guns

[Deanis]

Why do you so WANT a gun? And whos to say you are definately going to have it with you IF you do get attacked? I hope you arent like that guy off Bowling for Columbine with a gun in every room of his house, surely you arent THAT insecure. Here its illegal to have a gun on your person in public which makes a lot of sense, so in Celeste's case it wouldnt help you anyway.

Plus in Australia's case there just isnt many places to go recreational shooting (unless you go out back and shoot kangaroos), but the laws on that are still rightfully strict, and its for the better.

Ppl in the US seem to have some crazy ideas about how necessary having a gun is. We live in a fairly dangerous area of New South Wales, and in the 25yrs our family has been here we havent been attacked once, theres been ONE shooting over another illegal matter that wasnt fatal, but the person stil went to jail.

It also seems part of growing up to use a gun over there....theres just NO frame of mind over here like that.

To feel the need to carry a gun, seems to highlight an insecurity in society.

 

[Thatguy71]

Why do you so WANT a gun? And whos to say you are definately going to have it with you IF you do get attacked? I hope you arent like that guy off Bowling for Columbine with a gun in every room of his house, surely you arent THAT insecure. Here its illegal to have a gun on your person in public which makes a lot of sense, so in Celeste's case it wouldnt help you anyway.

Plus in Australia's case there just isnt many places to go recreational shooting (unless you go out back and shoot kangaroos), but the laws on that are still rightfully strict, and its for the better.

Ppl in the US seem to have some crazy ideas about how necessary having a gun is. We live in a fairly dangerous area of New South Wales, and in the 25yrs our family has been here we havent been attacked once, theres been ONE shooting over another illegal matter that wasnt fatal, but the person stil went to jail.

It also seems part of growing up to use a gun over there....theres just NO frame of mind over here like that.

To feel the need to carry a gun, seems to highlight an insecurity in society.

I want a gun to have the opportunity to protect myself. No I don't have a gun in every room like the guy in the most biased, dishonest and fictional opinion documentry like bolwing for coulmbine. Having or posessing a gun has nothing to do with insecurity, maybe with some but in my case it makes sense to be able to defend myself against someone who does have a gun illegally. Living in a dangerous area has nothing to do with having the right to defend yourself. Just because a person hasn't been attacked shouldn't carry a gun is like saying you don't have to wear your seatbelt because you've never been in a wreck. Sure plenty of people never wear a seatbelt, but considering what can happen to you if you don't, it's pretty irresponsible of you not to. Why is it when people think that one does something contrary to THIER personal belief then it most be a phobia.

 

[Deanis]

So you do think it necessary to have a gun on or near you 24/7 just in case you get attacked... i respect that opinion but I'm glad I dont even have to think about considering living my life like that. And whos to say the other person has the gun illegally? Does it matter, they both shoot bullets...
Its as if you are living in the Wild West, waiting for someone to rampage in with a gun at any moment. The opportunity will hardly ever arise, and to compare it to wearing seatbelts is stupid, there are many more factors as to why they are necessary, mistakes happen.
Again, I have been in at least 5 car accidents in my 19yrs of living, and yet havent ever been in a situation where I've felt a gun to be necessary.
IF someone was to pull a gun on you, and you shot them, youd be in just as bad a situation, at least in Australia.


Again it just must be imprinted in America's mind set to have a gun. You get that saturated with it, you just wont change your mind. "IF I've got a gun I'll be safe".....keep believing that man.

 

[Deanis]

These are all good points, but it's still in our consitution "the right to bear arms", any comprimise is comprimising our constituition. If we comprimise that amendment then what other ones are we willing to comprimise untill we become a socialist country? Some would argue that any and all restrictions are a violation of the second amendment, I am not one of them, there are some with mental health disorders that would be irresponsible of us to let have guns, I tend to agree with a violent felon not being allowed to have a gun, but less likely of one who became a felon due to $500 in property damage. Just having the permit (like a drivers license) lets the government know you have guns. Some people don't have problems with this because they are law abiding citizens, it just things like what happend in new orleans after katrina: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4 that bothers me. This also happend in Greensburg KS after a tornado.

OMG we've just had a hurricane and we are worried about not getting our guns back ....dammit thats pathetic.

Why dont you ever get that sense that ppl trust each other in America.

Im willing to blame the gonvernment: "Dont trust in the ppl of America, trust in God/us/the powers that be"

 

[Thatguy71]

So you do think it necessary to have a gun on or near you 24/7 just in case you get attacked... i respect that opinion but I'm glad I dont even have to think about considering living my life like that. And whos to say the other person has the gun illegally? Does it matter, they both shoot bullets...
Its as if you are living in the Wild West, waiting for someone to rampage in with a gun at any moment. The opportunity will hardly ever arise, and to compare it to wearing seatbelts is stupid, there are many more factors as to why they are necessary, mistakes happen.
Again, I have been in at least 5 car accidents in my 19yrs of living, and yet havent ever been in a situation where I've felt a gun to be necessary.
IF someone was to pull a gun on you, and you shot them, youd be in just as bad a situation, at least in Australia.


Again it just must be imprinted in America's mind set to have a gun. You get that saturated with it, you just wont change your mind. "IF I've got a gun I'll be safe".....keep believing that man.

Again you're assuming that owning a gun is strictly out of fear. It's not fear it's more like a tool. No I don't think I'm super man and that I can't get shot myself, but equalling the playing field gives me a higher probability of not getting shot. Carrying or owning a gun for protection is like insurance, you buy, you hope you NEVER have to use it because that means something bad has happend, but when you do use it you are glad you had it. Getting insurance has nothing to do with fear or false sense of saftey. There have been some instances where someone possesed a gun legally and used it for a crime, but that number is negligible compared to the criminals who have stolen, bought from imported illegal trafficers (like drugs) and are felons who there simply posessing one is a crime that use them for crimes. The sooner you realize that my upholding my consitiutional right to own a gun is not driven by fear, the sooner you'll realize that it's not a "crazy" or "irrational" thought process. If you buy into propaganda blindly like bowling for coulmbine without examining the facts then I don't know what to tell you because you have been misinformed. Crime has risen in Australia since the gun ban http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15304
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/aus.html

 

[Thatguy71]

OMG we've just had a hurricane and we are worried about not getting our guns back ....dammit thats pathetic.

Why dont you ever get that sense that ppl trust each other in America.

Im willing to blame the gonvernment: "Dont trust in the ppl of America, trust in God/us/the powers that be"

That's your personal oppinion and well oppinions are like the prosterior every body's got them.

 

[sremick]

So you do think it necessary to have a gun on or near you 24/7 just in case you get attacked

Necessary? No. I don't have one on or near me right now. Once I get my pistol though, I'll probably keep it in the car a lot.

I'm glad I dont even have to think about considering living my life like that.

You make it sound like it totally upends my life. "OMG you keep a fire-extinguisher in your house all the time? What, do you live in constant fear of fire? Boy I'm glad I don't have to live my life paralyzed with fear like that..."

And whos to say the other person has the gun illegally? Does it matter, they both shoot bullets...

Nope, it doesn't. What's your point? Who's to say the other person even has a gun? Maybe they're stronger than me. Maybe there's 2-3 of them and just one of me.

Its as if you are living in the Wild West, waiting for someone to rampage in with a gun at any moment.

Actually, it's nothing like that, which shows how out-of-touch the rest of you are about gun owners and the reality of the situation. Almost all gun-owners are just regular people living regular lives who don't seem like cowboys or para-military wannabees or anything like that. You wouldn't even know they had a gun.

You watch some TV shows that portray some extremist gun looney and decide to stereotype everyone like that. I suppose all you Australians are just like Nick Dundee then, and drink Fosters. Right?

The opportunity will hardly ever arise, and to compare it to wearing seatbelts is stupid, there are many more factors as to why they are necessary, mistakes happen.

Yep, and "crime happens", and it can be totally outside my ability to keep it from attempting to happen. However, it can be within my ability to stop it in its tracks.

The likelihood of something happening should be no excuse for not taking steps to prevent/handle it, especially when your life is at stake. The opportunity to ever need an inflatable escape ramp on a plane will hardly ever arise. I guess we should save the hassle and not have those either.

Again, I have been in at least 5 car accidents in my 19yrs of living, and yet havent ever been in a situation where I've felt a gun to be necessary.

Ok, so you've shown you're young, and you're a bad driver. What's your point?

IF someone was to pull a gun on you, and you shot them, youd be in just as bad a situation, at least in Australia.

Thank you for helping us prove just how ridiculous the laws in Australia (and elsewhere) are. Luckily we don't have that problem here.

 

[Thatguy71]

I suppose all you Australians are just like Nick Dundee then, and drink Fosters. Right?

:lol: You mean they aren't???

 

[blueovalboy7]

I have no problem with that. My dad made me take hunter's safety which taught me a lot even though I don't hunt. The Boy Scouts [*] also taught me a lot:

http://www.scouting.org/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx

Asinine restrictive gun laws are bone-headed, but training courses that prove you're not a dumbass and know which end of the gun is which, as well as how to properly handle, use, etc a gun would be a good idea.

Probably for computers too, but that's another thread. :lol:

[*] Despite their positive contribution to my childhood, I currently despise the Boy Scouts due to their close-minded, bigoted stance on homosexuals.

I believe they should make everyone take the hunter's safety course before they can legally begin the process of purchasing a firearm, I think it would help better educate people on how to properly handle a firearm.

Again I agree with you.

 

[Brawny]

And don't forget to emphasize the SPORTING aspect of firearms.

The more stringent training would be a better idea in my opinion. Completely revamped laws, no.

 

[[DT]]

Figured I'd make this a Hat Trick on agreement about gun safety classes/certification. I don't think it would infringe on anyone's right to own a firearm through legal channels - and would likely produce a safer owner.

I've been through a county managed class when I obtained my concealed permit, and have also been through the state run class for law enforcement - both without a doubt added to my understanding and skill set with firearms.

 

[Deanis]

LOl I wasnt referring to MY crashes, I just meant in general, from other family members, other friends even.

And like I said previously, guns for recreational use im not that worried with as long as it is gained through a strict process.

Theres just something in my psyche, and possibly in other ppl too, that taking the law into your own hands, and killing in self-defence, is a far too drastic measure, and again, I'm pretty sure doing it in Australia still gets you in trouble anyway, at a minimum youd certainly have to go to court and go through exactly what happened, and prove you were in the right.

And of course we are referring to other ppls opinions here, I already stated I respected yours, I just cant and am glad I dont have to apply it to my own life.

BTW Aussies dont follow TV like Americans, so no no-one drinks Fosters, who'd touch that crap ...and shrimps, wtf are they? Give me a VB and a snag anyday.... or 'Roo meat

 

[sremick]

Theres just something in my psyche, and possibly in other ppl too, that taking the law into your own hands, and killing in self-defence, is a far too drastic measure

I don't think anyone who is pro-gun in this thread would relish killing someone. I certainly know I wouldn't.

What I don't mind though is:

- Making it quite clear to an attacker I have the means to defend myself all the way to the point of lethal force if necessary (and hopefully at that point making it unnecessary by means of deterrence).

-Firing warning shots to prove the point if they continue

-Firing an injuring shot if it looks like I'm (or someone else is) in physical danger

-Firing a lethal shot if it's clearly come down to my life or theirs

I have to ask: "too drastic" compared to what? Watching your wife and/or children be raped or murdered? Let's say a thief has a knife to your wife's throat, and says you have to watch while his buddy has his way with your daughter. Do you:

1) Sit back and let it happen (after which there's still the chance that he'll cut your wife's throat anyway)

2) Somehow find a way to call 911 without noticing, and write off any abuse your daughter and wife suffer in the 30-60 minutes until the cops get there as a reasonable price to pay for not having the danger of guns.

3) Make your way to the drawer where you have your pistol, and shoot the guy with the knife?

Extreme? Perhaps. Unheard of? Unfortunately not. Worth the few hundred for a pistol? Damn straight.

Still don't believe entitling law-abiding citizens is a good thing? Think that all would be fine if the criminals didn't have guns too? Here are some more real-life examples:

Boy saved from rabid mountain lion by uncle with gun
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0310gl-nwvlion0312.html

Burglar shot breaking into house
http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/528350.html

Homeowner Refused To Be Robbed (no shots fired)
http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/topstories/16405851.html

Rochester resident held purse-snatching suspect at gunpoint
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080227/NEWS/802270335

Homeowner shoots at 2 intruders
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/03/homeowner_shoots_at_two_intrud.html

Intruder breaks in door, threatens homeowner with harm, then shot by homeowner
http://www.thedailycitizen.com/articles/2008/03/06/news/top_stories/top01.txt

Clerk Defends Self Against Would-Be Burglars
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=7972312

And those are just recent ones. Let me know if you want more. I can go on as long as you want.

 

[AndThen?]

So if we're in-agreement then that it wasn't the gun's fault, and instead it was bad education/parenting, then why bring it up? You could've substituted "gun" for "knife" and had any number of additional stories from the news. But we don't freak out about knives in the house.

Even if a kid did stab himself, he'd have a far easier time than if he shot himself. I admit bad parenting is a factor, but everything else aside, my cousin would still be able to walk had there not been a gun in the house.

Unless you're going to raise your kids in a bubble, you have to accept the fact that kids are going to be around stuff not for their use, and made for adults. Kids grow up in a world not designed by Fischer-Price. There are any number of things that a kid can hurt (and kill) themselves or others with if they're not raised properly. That's part of being a parent.

I know that. But I sure won't be subjecting my kids to the environment where there are guns around, especially when there is no need. Hey - knives serve a genuine purpose. I won't be having guns in my house with my kids just like I won't be having bombs in my house with my kids.

On the contrary, if I had kids, my protective instinct would kick into high-gear. I guess I'd just be that sort of parent. I'm more willing to suffer pain/loss for my own sake, but threaten my kids and watch out.

I totally respect and agree with that. However, I still don't think we should have guns in the house.

Rest-assured that my kids would be raised to give full respect to guns, and will have already fired them to get the whole "curiosity" out of the way and in a safe, controlled environment. Meanwhile, with kids my guns would be locked up at all times. Which is the responsible way to be a parent with guns, unlike your uncle who left an loaded gun unlocked.

Don't get personal. My uncle made a mistake and has beaten himself up about it enough.

"I've never been robbed, I have no need for an alarm system."
"I've never had a fire, I have no need for a fire-extinguisher."
"I've never been in a car accident, I've no need for a seatbelt."

Guns aren't the security measure I'd go for. Especially seeing as you mentioned your gun would be locked up... a lot of the time when you're being robbed you don't have the time to be unlocking cabinets.

Someone against gun-ownership is simply someone who hasn't been attacked/threatened by someone with superior-force yet. You'll have to forgive those of us who don't live in la-la land and realize that bad **** happens to good people, and instead want to be prepared and come out alive, not a statistic. We don't need to suffer a great tragedy first before we pull our heads out of the sand.

You're saying I don't understand that bad **** happens to good people? Wrong.

The fact is: we have NO need for a gun in Australia. If I ever do get robbed, I wouldn't pull a gun even if I had one. What am I going to do? Kill someone for stealing a television?

 

[sremick]

my cousin would still be able to walk had there not been a gun in the house.

And lots of people would still be alive if there had been a gun in their houses.

While tragic, you have one anecdotal personal experience. It's not a valid basis for scapgoating blame and infringing on others' right to defend themselves. One could come up with any number of items to fill in the blank of "If only there wasn't ________ around, so'n'so would be alive." So why don't we ban it all? Because although things can do harm in certain circumstances, you have to balance it against the good they can do. I would argue that something can can save your life and deter/prevent crime has a lot of value.

I sure won't be subjecting my kids to the environment where there are guns around, especially when there is no need.

I guess protection against intruders/attackers is something that a lot of us consider a "need". And if done properly, with proper parenting, and proper handling of the firearm, there is not much risk. All the accidents that prompt the knee-jerk emotional reactions and laws are the result of negligence in parenting, storage, and often both.

Guns aren't the security measure I'd go for. Especially seeing as you mentioned your gun would be locked up... a lot of the time when you're being robbed you don't have the time to be unlocking cabinets.

You bring up a valid point. For a standard gun safe, yes... it'd take too long to unlock. Luckily this problem was solved a long time ago, with simplified combination locks you can quickly open with hardly moving one hand (and only needing one hand), without looking. There are also ones with fingerprint readers. I'll likely get one of those.

The fact is: we have NO need for a gun in Australia.

Hmm, so on one hand we have your anecdotal experience and isolated opinion, on the other hand we have the official Australian crime statistics, which stated that in the 4 years after Australia banned guns:

• Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
• Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
• Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44%
• In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
• Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
• Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
• There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly

So who do we believe? You both can't be right.