Your opinion of guns

[AndThen?]

And lots of people would still be alive if there had been a gun in their houses.

While tragic, you have one anecdotal personal experience. It's not a valid basis for scapgoating blame and infringing on others' right to defend themselves. One could come up with any number of items to fill in the blank of "If only there wasn't ________ around, so'n'so would be alive." So why don't we ban it all? Because although things can do harm in certain circumstances, you have to balance it against the good they can do. I would argue that something can can save your life and deter/prevent crime has a lot of value.

I guess protection against intruders/attackers is something that a lot of us consider a "need". And if done properly, with proper parenting, and proper handling of the firearm, there is not much risk. All the accidents that prompt the knee-jerk emotional reactions and laws are the result of negligence in parenting, storage, and often both.

You bring up a valid point. For a standard gun safe, yes... it'd take too long to unlock. Luckily this problem was solved a long time ago, with simplified combination locks you can quickly open with hardly moving one hand (and only needing one hand), without looking. There are also ones with fingerprint readers. I'll likely get one of those.

Hmm, so on one hand we have your anecdotal experience and isolated opinion, on the other hand we have the official Australian crime statistics, which stated that in the 4 years after Australia banned guns:

• Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
• Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
• Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44%
• In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
• Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
• Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
• There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly

So who do we believe? You both can't be right.

I don't have time to respond the way I normally do because I'm going out, but my closing statement would be that a gun is not a valid protection instrument in my circumstance, in my opinion.

 

[Eagles]

You do realize that there are almost 15 times as many people in the USA as there are in Australia, right? When adjusted for population (and assuming your figure of 90 is correct, as I don't have time to count right now), the USA only has 3 times the amount of school shootings than Australia.

Yes I do realise that, but I believe 3 times more is a considerable amount.

In my opinion, that figure can be explained from various ways that American youth are majorly f-ed up (bad parenting, social influences, etc) compared to the youth of the rest of the world. But it's not the guns' fault that our kids are stressed out.

So why give these "f-ed up kids" more chance of getting hold of a gun?

Banning guns woudln't have prevented the 2 boys from blowing up propane tanks in the Columbine school. Shall we ban propane tanks too?

May I ask how often you hear of propane tank deaths compared to that of guns?

Hmm, so on one hand we have your anecdotal experience and isolated opinion, on the other hand we have the official Australian crime statistics, which stated that in the 4 years after Australia banned guns:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44%
In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly

Could you give us some up to date figures please? I want to see long term figures not meaningless short term ones.

Maybe some statistics like this would be more appropriate:

In 1997, the Prime Minister appointed the Australian Institute of Criminology to analyse of the effects of the gun buyback. Since then, a number of papers have been published reporting trends and statistics around legal gun ownership and gun crime, which they have found to be mostly related to illegally-held firearms.[14][15] In 2003, a sporting shooters' organisation argued that no benefit-cost analysis of the "buyback" has been published.[16] In 2007, researchers at the Australian National University reported "There were on average 250 fewer firearm deaths per year after the implementation of the National Firearms Agreement than would have been expected," There was a reduction in both murders and suicides. This report criticised an earlier report from two shooters' organisations on methodological grounds,[17]. The Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia disputes these claims.

Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have remained relatively static for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm related deaths in Australia declined 47%.

Sources: [14] = Mouzos, Jenny (2000). Trends and Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice No. 151: The licensing and registration status of firearms used in homicide. Australian Institute of Criminology. ISBN 0-642-24162-7; ISSN 0817-8542.

[15] = a b Mouzos, Jenny (2002). Trends and Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice No. 230: Firearms theft in Australia. Australian Institute of Criminology. ISBN 0-642-24265-8; ISSN 0817-8542.

[16] = CLASS (2003). "Science in the Service of Politics". 

[17] = John Garnaut. "Gun laws credited as lifesavers". Brisbane Times. 

Sremick, You've done an excellent job presenting the facts. I just wanted to let you know that with some people (most liberals) will continue to belive thier own oppinion as fact no matter how many facts you give them(it has something to do with all the emotion they have rapped up in thier ideology). I always like to give them the facts up front but anything after that is just beating a dead horse, then eventually after they lose the debate to the facts, resort to making fun of you or nit pick at spelling/grammar errors. But I still say good job.

:lol: x 100 . No facts have been presented here, merely opinions. In general sremick statistics have come from fairly unknown sources and many counter examples have been made. It might be best if you read everyones posts rather then just his.

 

[Extra Life Mushroom]

I understand guns to a point, but I think they are much too glorified by the media. (in the US at least)

Take for example my situation. I have never fired a firearm in my life. Be that as it may my fiance and I live in the poor side of the community at the moment. (poor college students)

We have been broken in on several times. usually nothing is taken although my wii was stolen once. (thankfully I got it back) So to say there is no need for protection is to play ignorant. But then again on could simply use a knife instead of a gun and be equally effective.

I have no issue with guns but I'm not a gun nut like most people down here where I live. I'm more than likely going to be joining the military soon so the likelihood of me becoming more than well acquainted guns is high.

I think the laws should be something like they are in other countries. Most people whom have them don't need them, and those that do need them are usually demonized for using them.

There is no need for hunting in today's modern society. And hunting isn't really as sport to me so much as it is a test of patience. A sport to my is when two people of equal skill compete in a friendly manner to see which one is more talented at performing said task. And in the terms of hunting it's not really fair to the animal. You hide in a tree with a veritable sniper rifle minus the silencer and wait until he's not looking to shoot him. Kinda cowerdly in my eyes.
A real huntsman is a person whom would stand toe to toe with whatever they're hunting and face it with nothing more than their wits and maybe a blade. That is true combat and the animal has just as much a chance of winning as you do. A fair fight essentially. But most laugh at me when say that, because it's not important enough to them to risk their lives. And to that I say, "Now you see my point, hunting in today;s world is not necessary."

So in summation, I think guns for protection's sake are a good idea if truly needed, but if the police did their jobs as they were meant to then in theory we wouldn't need to get our own protection. (the police in my town are useless.)

So guns are a rather bad idea for the majority of the world. You would only need one if you plan on killing someone or plan on someone trying to kill you, either way it's a bad scenario and most mortals don't have to worry about it.

(the following statement is kinda of a reference to my in-laws..they're the kind of hard-core southerners who think having enough weaponry in the home to fight a small war is a good thing )

they just like to over react and think that having a gun rack next to their mounted deer heads makes them look "cool" or "manly", to me it just makes you look like a fool who plays with something dangerous that you don't really need.

 

[powerpc127]

I feel that the only reason to own a gun is (maybe) sport. And I don't mean killing animals, I mean shooting targets. I say "maybe" because there are some people that do use them for sport but are just idiots around them. Like the guy who tried hitting the rafters of his barn with the butt of a loaded rifle to make the chickens get off it.
As far as self defense, use a knife if you really want to be menacing. And for hunting, use a bow. That makes it a little more fair for the deer. (I'll do the whole moral debate later. Maybe when it's not 4 AM)

 

[Foosoo]

Who said there was no need for guns? Minigun FTW!!!!!!!!

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roVCZ0uGMfQ[/MEDIA]

 

[Sparx]

What movie is that? Predator or Commando?

Wow talk about bad aim, if I was there I would **** my pants!
Also, in real life you would need ear plugs for that if you don't wanna go deaf.

My Strategy: Hide in a tree and wait for someone to come then blast their brains out. Thats how I would survive.

 

[Foosoo]

That's from predator, one of my favorite films.

 

[Sparx]

Matrix ftw

 

[Diomedes]

like the hydrogen bomb, guns should have never been made. People do not realise the extent of the damage these instruments of death can cause.

 

[sremick]

like the hydrogen bomb, guns should have never been made. People do not realise the extent of the damage these instruments of death can cause.

Actually, they're nothing like the hydrogen bomb.

The hydrogen bomb is an indiscriminate weapon that causes mass death on an epic scale in the hundreds of thousands. A gun in my hand pointed at someone threatening my life or home is a precision deterrent for what could have been a crime or tragedy.

 

[Frogger]

like the hydrogen bomb, guns should have never been made. People do not realise the extent of the damage these instruments of death can cause.

You're acting like the human race is perfect, do you ever wonder why communism didn't work out? You can just say that "We should never have war" and a lot of people would agree, but, what else are we supposed to do?

 

[sremick]

Correct. Human beings are fallible. If we take away the protections against human fallibility just because those who have failed might abuse them, then we only fail more.

Anything can be abused. Anything can be used wrong. Don't punish everyone for the weakness of the few.

 

[ElronMac]

Well I have read this post and now it's time to say something.

First, to Sremick, very nicely done. You have done an excellent job in advocating gun ownership, I agree with you 100%, even though you are a tree hugger...lol. Thank You

Second, to all those who have stated they would be able to defend themselves without a gun against an attacker with one, SHUT UP. You are truly living in a reality that does not exist. There has been one person who has posted besides myself that can actually say they have been in that situation and that knows exactly what it is like to feel totally and completely helpless. I can guarantee each and every one of you that if I put you in that situation your very first reaction would be fear, and most of you would end up wetting your pants and crying, your next reaction would be to flee and you would either end up shot in the back, stopped and shot in the front or on the off chance that you actually have the speed to outrun a bullet you would get away. The first time it happened to me I wet my pants and then lost all my money, the second I ended up doing much better and it only took a warning shot to the assailants feet. A weapon does equalize the situation and nothing causes criminals to become honest quicker than a bullet. I hope and pray that I never have to be in a situation like that again, but I know that if I am at least I am going in on equal terms

Third, I own guns, not a gun, but several. I always have and I always will. I also have children, those also will never go away, sometimes they need to though:lol: Amazingly I have them both in the same house and I have no issues with that, now some of you may ask how is that even possible. Well it's simple, EDUCATION, that is the key to everything. As a parent it is my responsibility to educate my children, whether it be on gun safety, sex, drugs, whatever, but anything that can cause them harm it is my job to educate them.

Fourth, Oddly the reason I have guns is not primarily self defense, the reason I have them is to provide food for my table. Most of you will not be able to comprehend this but, for most of my life I have eaten only what wild game I could hunt and butcher myself, why? Well a couple reasons, one money, it's just simply cheaper than buying it, two, thats how I was raised, I really didn't know you could buy meat in a store until I was in my teens.

Now to all of you who think gun control laws are the solution, they really and truly aren't. Probably the best example I can come up with is AIDS. Lets think about this for a moment. Lets say that in the late 80's and early 90's when AIDS was hitting home hard in every demographic of the population that sex was outlawed and put under federal regulation, do you really believe that would have stemmed the tide? No really, do you? Of course not, prohibiting sex would have only increased it by taking something that really isn't the problem, and for lack of a better word martyring it. Thats not what we did though, we turned to education instead, we took the time educate ourselves, our children and everyone around us, of the dangers involved in unprotected sex. Now look at where we are at, yes aids is still a problem and very serious one, but it's growth is not on upward spiral due to the fact that we have become educated.

It is in the country I live in a persons personal choice to own a gun or not, and that is fine. But if you don't own one that doesn't give you the right to say I shouldn't either. For those of you elsewhere in the world more power to you, if your country has laws prohibiting gun use and they work wonderful.

Bottom line is education, be responsible and take the time to educate yourself and those you are with if you are going to have and use a gun. Unfortunately in our cultural they are also used as toys and that in my opinion is a huge mistake. Never take something a child could actually do major damage with and tell them its a toy, in my house my children have never had toy guns, just the real ones and those they are not allowed to touch, look at, go near, think about or anything else, not that they could because they are all safely locked up. Anyway I could go on forever about educating people, but I won't. Just wanted to say that in order to effect change the most successful and positive way has always been and will always be education, regardless of the topic.

 

[Brawny]

If you weren't in a fan club, I'd respect you so much more. XD

+rep.

 

[ElronMac]

If you weren't in a fan club, I'd respect you so much more. XD

+rep.

Ok fine I quit....lol.