Sony to force Blu-ray upon us

[Dark Void]

@ Dark Void - I think you missed the point I was making. I wasn't talking about branding or advertising or innovation. I was trying to highlight the possibility that there is a different motive to the PS3 than what is made public to gamers.
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ya i know, im just saying that i dont really care about that other motive as long as i can enjoy games.

 

[NightShift]

I think Blu-Ray is the very reason that the PS3 will flop in the end...HD-DVD will win out and Blu-Ray will be the next betamax, leaving the PS3 a super-expensive game machine/paperweight. I say paperweight because crossplatform games ALWAYS look better for the 360 since its way easier to develop for and PS3 titles are ported from that.

 

[vagrant]

Blu-ray is going to tank. HD-DVD has too much force behind it.

 

[Squall7]

Bear in mind as well that Sony, contrary to nintendo, was never a company committed to gaming... they never cared for the game, they never pushed for innovations... they were just a company that profited from the snes cd case, and saw that the future of gaming was in cdz and bigger storage (a vision that nintendo for some reason didnt take as seriously as they should). All Sony ever cared about was selling as much of the medium as they could; the game itself was always the others' case (contrarily again to ninty, who bases the success of its own consoles on home titles).

Err, the reasons for Nintendo NOT choosing CD's over Carts are:
1. No loading times or Carts.
2. More durable (harder to break) carts. CD's get scratched extremely easily - Heck even some not-quite-right laser from the PSX and PS2 cansometims do it.
3. Carts are extremely difficult and generally less profitable to pirate. CD's were cheap and relatively easy to pirate.

Considering Nintendo has a major investment in the software developing market as well, they really couldn't risk themselves being ripped off. Why do you think Sony doesn't do many first party titles?

Considering most single-disk PSX games COULD fit onto a Cart anyway (Resident Evil 2 - Which was actually 2 disks, and Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2), storage space was only an issue for Squaresoft. Even then, most of the data from the Final Fantasy disks were replicated onto the other disks. The main difference is the FMV's - Which if they would have spent more time trying to compress, they'd have probably been okay.

But ye, I agree that Sony is just in it for the money. It's why they're trying to win people over with the cross-over into other multimedia (UMD's for example, as well as MP3 player etc...). Now that he public seem to be ready for online gaming and such (especially when free), Nintendo is bringing people what they want, rather than telling them what they want (You want a blu-ray player with a HDTV and you want more powerful CPU etc...)

 

[ABC]

Blu-ray is going to tank. HD-DVD has too much force behind it.

Really? More movie studios and technology companies are backing Blu-Ray than they ar HD DVD. Here ya go, from engadget.com... not looking too good for HD-DVD.

Studios (movie and game) listed as supporting members

Blu-Ray -

20th Century Fox
Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Electronic Arts
MGM Studios
Paramount Pictures
Sony Pictures Entertainment
The Walt Disney Company
Vivendi Universal Games
Warner Bros.

HD DVD -

Buena Vista Home Entertainment
New Line Cinema
Paramount Pictures
The Walt Disney Company
Universal Studios
Warner Bros.

It gets better. Much better... read on.

Companies listed as Members of the Board or Managing Members

Blu-Ray -

Apple Computer Corp.
Dell, Inc.
Hewlett Packard Company
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Pictures and Television

HD DVD

Memory-Tech Corporation
NEC Corporation
Sanyo Electric Co.

^Yup, you read that correctly. Those are the technology companies backing HD DVD. If we were to tally the score right now, Blu-Ray took the cake and the table too. Get the facts, it really might expand your mind a bit.

Here ya go, read the full article, Blu-Ray is far in the lead:

Blu-ray vs HD DVD: State of the Division - Engadget

Not like you can argue against the above FACTS anyway, but here, I will even go as far to see who is doing better financially. As most of us know, the companies that founded Blu-Ray are Sony and Philips Electronics and the ones that founded HD DVD are Toshiba and Hitachi. Here are the stock quotes:

HD DVD

Toshiba Stock at 5.04
Hitachi Stock at 58.80

Blu Ray

Sony Stock at 39.69
Philips Stock at 37.42

So you can clearly see there are two VERY stable companies that founded and are investing the most into Blu-Ray while HD-DVD has Hitachi that is actually making some money. Stability is key in the world of electronics. Anyone? Please, I would love to hear what you have to say to the above stated FACTS.

 

[Squall7]

So you can clearly see there are two VERY stable companies that founded and are investing the most into Blu-Ray while HD-DVD has Hitachi that is actually making some money. Stability is key in the world of electronics. Anyone? Please, I would love to hear what you have to say to the above stated FACTS.

Of course, all that comes down to the penetration of blu-ray into the market. Considering so few people have HDTV's yet, and that PS3's are having a few problems, we may see these "Facts" (As they are at the present) change.

Besides, many of the companies are supporting both it seems (Beuna Vista and Warner Bros for example). It just shows that not all companies are sure about the outcome of this. Likewise, the fact that the list is over a year old kinda indicates that it means little. The games and movie industry changes drastically year to year.

Also you CAN argue against conclusions of the "facts". Whilst I can see that Bluray had quite a backing (last year. Provide some up to date details on this to be relevant to today), it doesn't mean that it definately won't "tank".

Wikipedia states about support for UMD:

In February 2006, Paramount Home Entertainment, Warner Home Video, and even Sony Pictures Home Entertainment announced that they are cutting back releases for the PSP, citing very disappointing sales of about 50,000 per title.

Considering those were some of the major studios backing blu ray - as well as HD DVD (except Sony themselves), I would say that they would gladly switch sides if HD DVD started to get more sales.

Also, you seem to indicate that companies would "stick" with one single format - Blu-Ray. They would actually go for the more profitable one.

Interesting read from Wikipedia:

The primary rival to Blu-ray Disc is HD DVD, championed by Toshiba, NEC Corporation, Microsoft, and Intel. HD DVD has a lower theoretical disc capacity per layer (15 GB vs 25 GB), but currently (as of 2006) benefits from lower manufacturing costs for both pre-recorded (ROM) and recordable media. Blu-ray Disc detractors believe that the 50 GB disc is unlikely to ever be cost effective, while Blu-ray Disc proponents expect BD media manufacturing costs to approach those of HD DVD, once production volume has ramped. The Blu-ray Disc version of the Adam Sandler movie Click was released on October 10, 2006 as the first ever dual-layer release. Sony's goal is to use 50 GB dual-layer discs to store up to nine hours of HD video content. Alternatively, studios releasing movies on Blu-ray Disc can choose to use VC-1 or H.264/AVC instead of MPEG-2 as an alternative way to put four hours of high-definition content on a (single layer) BD.

In terms of audio/video compression, Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD are similar on the surface: both support MPEG-2, VC-1, and H.264 for video compression, and Dolby Digital (AC-3), PCM, and DTS for audio compression. The first generation of Blu-ray Disc movies released used MPEG-2 (the standard currently used in DVDs, although encoded at a much higher video resolution and a much higher bit rate than those used on conventional DVDs), while initial HD DVDs releases used the more efficient VC-1 codec. Blu-ray Disc permit a higher maximum video bit rate, as well as potentially higher average bit rates (due to greater total disc capacity). In terms of audio, there are some differences. Blu-ray Disc allows conventional AC-3 audiotracks at 640 kbit/s, which is higher than DVD/HD DVD's maximum, 448 kbit/s. On the other hand, Dolby Digital Plus support is mandatory for standalone HD DVD players at a maximum of 3 Mbit/s, while optional for BD players and support upto a higher bitrate of 4.736 Mbit/s [46].

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc support the 24p (traditional movie) frame rate, but technical implementations of this mode are different among the two formats. Blu-ray Disc supports 24p with its native timing, while HD DVD uses 30p timing for 24p (replacing missing frames with "repeat field flags"). [47] There is no impact on picture resolution as a result of this, although repeated frames have been known to introduce subtle motion artifacts, especially in moving camera shots.

On November 29, 2004 four Hollywood studios (New Line Cinema, Paramount Pictures, Universal Studios and Warner Bros.) announced non-exclusive agreements to support HD DVD. Since that time, Paramount and Warner have chosen to release titles in both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, while Universal has since announced exclusive support for HD DVD.

Source: Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By your logic, these are "FACTS" that cannot be argued with.

 

[ericlewis91]

blue ray dvd seems so more advanced and cool...instead of hd dvd..its boring and plain name!

 

[ABC]

Wikipedia states about support for UMD:

Considering those were some of the major studios backing blu ray - as well as HD DVD (except Sony themselves), I would say that they would gladly switch sides if HD DVD started to get more sales.

What the hell does UMD have to do with Blu-Ray? That is completely irrelivant man. I mean if your going to bring something, at least let it pertain to the topic at hand. Even as a Sony hater, you have to admit that Blu-Ray is winning AS OF RIGHT NOW. The facts can't be fcuking ignored even by ignorant Sony haters.

 

[Squall7]

What the hell does UMD have to do with Blu-Ray? That is completely irrelivant man. I mean if your going to bring something, at least let it pertain to the topic at hand. Even as a Sony hater, you have to admit that Blu-Ray is winning AS OF RIGHT NOW. The facts can't be fcuking ignored even by ignorant Sony haters.

You're joking right? Blu-Ray is not "winning". DVD is "winning" (considering DVD's are still more widely circulated than Blu Ray disks and HD DVD's).

UMD is relevant because it's exactly what Sony tried to do before - Take control of the movie industry. UMD is VERY relevant. There was a lot of support for UMD's from various film companies - which is my point - film companies don't know the outcome of various "format wars" and should not be used to "prove" that one will ultimately dominate.

Yes, I hate Sony. That doesn't make my opinions nor the facts that I bring to the table any less relevant or valuable. Sony have tried numerous times to control the film industry - Betamax, UMD, Blu Ray. Each time, the technology has been to costly - regardless of quality. You seem to be getting rather uptight with your "facts" here. Indeed, coming from someone as emotional as yourself, I don't trust your judgement on what you consider "Facts" and your ability to distinguish between "fact and Feeling".

Indeed, the irony of calling me ignorant, when I've just found your faults and called you on the BS you spew as "Facts" and then proceeding to say that I'm an ignorant Sony-hater. I hate Sony, but I am far from ignorant. Some of the best arguements that people come up with against Sony are entirely fact-based.

You don't like my (actual) facts? Tough.

 

[ABC]

You're joking right? Blu-Ray is not "winning". DVD is "winning" (considering DVD's are still more widely circulated than Blu Ray disks and HD DVD's).

UMD is relevant because it's exactly what Sony tried to do before - Take control of the movie industry. UMD is VERY relevant. There was a lot of support for UMD's from various film companies - which is my point - film companies don't know the outcome of various "format wars" and should not be used to "prove" that one will ultimately dominate.

Yes, I hate Sony. That doesn't make my opinions nor the facts that I bring to the table any less relevant or valuable. Sony have tried numerous times to control the film industry - Betamax, UMD, Blu Ray. Each time, the technology has been to costly - regardless of quality. You seem to be getting rather uptight with your "facts" here. Indeed, coming from someone as emotional as yourself, I don't trust your judgement on what you consider "Facts" and your ability to distinguish between "fact and Feeling".

Indeed, the irony of calling me ignorant, when I've just found your faults and called you on the BS you spew as "Facts" and then proceeding to say that I'm an ignorant Sony-hater. I hate Sony, but I am far from ignorant. Some of the best arguements that people come up with against Sony are entirely fact-based.

You don't like my (actual) facts? Tough.

Wait, you never really disproved anything that I wrote though, you simply posted an article from Wikipedia that pretty much stated the good and bad of both medias, said alittle something about UMD which had no relevance, and now you are bringing old DVDs into the picture... you really need to learn how to read. What facts did you bring other than showing us the codes used for audio and video on both formats?

 

[Squall7]

Wait, you never really disproved anything that I wrote though, you simply posted an article from Wikipedia that pretty much stated the good and bad of both medias, said alittle something about UMD which had no relevance, and now you are bringing old DVDs into the picture... you really need to learn how to read. What facts did you bring other than showing us the codes used for audio and video on both formats?

And you really need to learn a lot of things.

I never disproved it, but I didn't need to, only cast the shadow of criticism which is what your evidence lacked. UMD's are made by Sony. The manufacture of the Blu-ray isn't in question here - the philosophy of Sony's desire to control (and past failures) the film industry and their apparent support is. This is why UMD is entirely relevant. If it were your agruement that the way the disks created were better or worse that HD DVD, then UMD would have no relevance. The fact of the matter, is that we've seen a pattern from Sony. DVD's are still very much in the picture, because it's the delaying factor - most people will stick with DVD's (Especially since a lot of them can be upscaled), thus reducing (but not eliminating) the need to buy specialised HD disks (Whether HD DVD or Blu ray).

Saying UMD is irrelevant to Blu ray is like saying the Wii is irrelevant to the Gamcube.

The facts I was bringing up were the failure of the UMD despite various film companies support. My facts were criticising your facts.

Now please, if you're going to bring better "facts" to the discussion, please do so. Oh, and remove that attitude of yours if you want to be taken seiously.

 

[ABC]

And you really need to learn a lot of things.

I never disproved it, but I didn't need to, only cast the shadow of criticism which is what your evidence lacked. UMD's are made by Sony. The manufacture of the Blu-ray isn't in question here - the philosophy of Sony's desire to control (and past failures) the film industry and their apparent support is. This is why UMD is entirely relevant. If it were your agruement that the way the disks created were better or worse that HD DVD, then UMD would have no relevance. The fact of the matter, is that we've seen a pattern from Sony. DVD's are still very much in the picture, because it's the delaying factor - most people will stick with DVD's (Especially since a lot of them can be upscaled), thus reducing (but not eliminating) the need to buy specialised HD disks (Whether HD DVD or Blu ray).

Saying UMD is irrelevant to Blu ray is like saying the Wii is irrelevant to the Gamcube.

The facts I was bringing up were the failure of the UMD despite various film companies support. My facts were criticising your facts.

Now please, if you're going to bring better "facts" to the discussion, please do so. Oh, and remove that attitude of yours if you want to be taken seiously.

You cast the shadow of criticism? You have got be fcuking kidding me bro. Hahahaha I don't even know where to start with how flawwed and idiotic your thinking is. Let's say UMDs got wiped off of the earth tomorrow. Ok, they are GONE. No UMDs, they failed completely. Ok, now please tell me what kind of fcuking relevance that will have to the sales and support that companies are showing for Blu-Ray? Absolutely none. Blu-Ray is competeing with HD DVD... UMDs are competeing.... with uhm... themselves. I mean to even compare the two is just completely idiotic.

You can cast any type of critcism you want but unless you disprove my facts and info to back them up, your words mean dick.

Excuse me? Who the hell are you? Yes Dad, I will remove my atitude..I am so sorry. I can talk to you whatever way I damn please and you can't do **** about it... for goodness sakes you can't even disprove anything I say. You lost, go cry.

 

[Squall7]

You cast the shadow of criticism? You have got be fcuking kidding me bro. Hahahaha I don't even know where to start with how flawwed and idiotic your thinking is. Let's say UMDs got wiped off of the earth tomorrow. Ok, they are GONE. No UMDs, they failed completely. Ok, now please tell me what kind of fcuking relevance that will have to the sales and support that companies are showing for Blu-Ray? Absolutely none. Blu-Ray is competeing with HD DVD... UMDs are competeing.... with uhm... themselves. I mean to even compare the two is just completely idiotic.

Flawed and idiotic? kinda expresses your arguement. And at least I can be civil about my disagree with you. Ok, UMD wiped off the earth. The support for UMD from companies would still have existed, therefore sheding doubt on if they themselves know which side to pick. To compare the two in terms of support is neither idiotic, nor irrelevant.

You can cast any type of critcism you want but unless you disprove my facts and info to back them up, your words mean dick.

Wrong. They mean that you so called "facts" don't really accomodate for everything, and considering they're meant to be facts - i.e. correct, they kinda become null and void if they cannot accomodate everything (or rather your conclusions are - as company support has proved not to be the sole selling point of the next medium).

Excuse me? Who the hell are you? Yes Dad, I will remove my atitude..I am so sorry. I can talk to you whatever way I damn please and you can't do **** about it... for goodness sakes you can't even disprove anything I say. You lost, go cry.

Wrong again. Change your attitue and you'll stop sounding like Cartman. Essentially, you don't even seem to have a respect for anyone else's opinions, and would therefore lose the respect others' may have given you. In essence, because you're so nasty, less people will actually like you, and therefore anything you say will be taken less lightly. Even your attitude stinks of being immature. My guess - your parents didn't pay you enough attention, and so you lash out at everyone else for not giving you the attention you think you deserve. Wanna know what? I don't really care what you think. Call me any name under the sun. It'll only prove me right.

 

[ABC]

Flawed and idiotic? kinda expresses your arguement. And at least I can be civil about my disagree with you. Ok, UMD wiped off the earth. The support for UMD from companies would still have existed, therefore sheding doubt on if they themselves know which side to pick. To compare the two in terms of support is neither idiotic, nor irrelevant.


Wrong. They mean that you so called "facts" don't really accomodate for everything, and considering they're meant to be facts - i.e. correct, they kinda become null and void if they cannot accomodate everything (or rather your conclusions are - as company support has proved not to be the sole selling point of the next medium).


Wrong again. Change your attitue and you'll stop sounding like Cartman. Essentially, you don't even seem to have a respect for anyone else's opinions, and would therefore lose the respect others' may have given you. In essence, because you're so nasty, less people will actually like you, and therefore anything you say will be taken less lightly. Even your attitude stinks of being immature. My guess - your parents didn't pay you enough attention, and so you lash out at everyone else for not giving you the attention you think you deserve. Wanna know what? I don't really care what you think. Call me any name under the sun. It'll only prove me right.

So your pretty much crying with that entire thread... except for that paragraph in the middle that had a bunch of big words but meant absolutely nothing. You can't simply accept the fact that I am right. You try so hard to sound sophisticated that you actually come off as a fake. You throw all these nice words into a pile and hope that in the end it turns into something that makes sense. Then you bring irrelevant arguments and want me to respect that? I don't think so man. Bring facts to DISPROVE my facts, not some bullshit that you think is rellevant. I gave you numbers, I gave you lists... you gave me two irreelevant arguments and a Wikipedia article describing both formats. And you want some type of respect from me? Your going to have to do a bit harder than that. Oh, and drop the atitude, people don't like that around here.

 

[Squall7]

So your pretty much crying with that entire thread... except for that paragraph in the middle that had a bunch of big words but meant absolutely nothing.

Big words? Ok, tell me which big words gave you trouble and I'll explain them to you.

You can't simply accept the fact that I am right.

If that's you're idea of "fact" then I've been wasting my time criticising you. You obviously need to re-learn what the word "fact" means.

You try so hard to sound sophisticated that you actually come off as a fake.

Like I said before, I don't care what you think about me.

You throw all these nice words into a pile and hope that in the end it turns into something that makes sense.

Ok, please, tell me which words you don't know and I'll explain them to you.

Then you bring irrelevant arguments and want me to respect that?

Irrelevant? Or just damaging to your arguement?

I don't think so man.

Well, you got 3 words right...

Bring facts to DISPROVE my facts, not some bullshit that you think is rellevant.

Facts - those companies supported blu ray Septemeber 2005. Fiction - This proves that Blu-ray will succeed. Fact - company support doesn't guarantee success. Illustration - UMD had major film studios behind it and still failed.
What part of this do you not get?

I gave you numbers, I gave you lists...

Statistics can be fitted to form any kind of arguement. e.g. Six major film companies are backing HD DVD as of September 2005.
e.g. A whopping 500,000 copies of each film released were sold on UMD.

you gave me two irreelevant arguments and a Wikipedia article describing both formats.

Like I said before, Irrevelevant or just damaging to your arguement?

And you want some type of respect from me?

No. I just want you to respect somebody but yourself.

Your going to have to do a bit harder than that.

Some battles just aren't worth it.

Oh, and drop the atitude, people don't like that around here.

Oh, you mean the civil one whereby I don't sware at anybody or call anyone else names for disagreeing with me. Let's have a vote: Who prefers my attitude? Or who prefers ABC's attitude?