Evolution: Are you being brainwashed?

[Brawny]

Conservatism

Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

Liberalism

Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

Left winged

In politics, the left-wing or the left is associated, to varying degrees, with social (as opposed to classical) liberalism, social democracy, socialism, communism, anarchism, and green politics and has historically been opposed by the right.
The left is generally secular

Right winged

However, it is generally used to refer to the segments of the political spectrum often associated with any of several strains of conservatism, monarchism, fascism, libertarianism, anarcho-capitalism, reactionism, the religious right, nationalism, or simply the opposite of left-wing politics.

There, those are the definitions that are the closest to my ideas of them. Making sure we are all on the same page here.

I do have to know how they think HOUSE is anti-religious...He's a druggie?

 

[Squall7]

There, those are the definitions that are the closest to my ideas of them. Making sure we are all on the same page here.

So, even by your definition, the people you were refering to are not true "liberals" as they are not tolerant. Glad we got that cleared up.

And interestingly,

However, it is generally used to refer to the segments of the political spectrum often associated with any of several strains of conservatism, monarchism, fascism, libertarianism, anarcho-capitalism, reactionism, the religious right, nationalism, or simply the opposite of left-wing politics

I do have to know how they think HOUSE is anti-religious...He's a druggie?

No idea. But personally, I think they're only taking face-value pot shots (well Family Guy is anyway, don't really watch enough of the others to tell), whereas I would have thought Comedy Central would have had top spot with South Park and Drawn Together... (Well, Comedy Central sees themselves as a network, although I don't know how big a network...)

COMEDY CENTRAL, television's only all-comedy network is the #1 network in primetime among men 18-24 as well as a consistent Top Ten-rated network among all adults 18-49.

Source:http://www.comedycentral.com/press/bios/index.jhtml?pg=factsheet

 

[Brawny]

I think that when The Simpsons parody literary works, it is awesome!! ( nosebud on an orson wells episode for example). When they use religion (esp. the super bowl one) I really despise it.

 

[Squall7]

I think that when The Simpsons parody literary works, it is awesome!! ( nosebud on an orson wells episode for example). When they use religion (esp. the super bowl one) I really despise it.

Meh, I fell out of love with the Simpsons when Futurama came along. And then I started to dislike it when Futurama was canned in favour of The Simpsons.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Yes, Christian.

Source:http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/12/15/fox-most-anti-religious-network/

Ok so that article talks about fox showing cartoons that make fun of everything that goes on in the world. Thought this was about conservative right wing christians not allowing you to say God but Muhammed and all that other stuff and i dont see any proof on that article stating that and..its Fox, I've heard God mentioned in the news before plenty of times. You still don't understand what hypocrites are do you. If it looks like a christian, talks like a christian, but doesnt walk like a christian, it isnt a christian.

One could argue that they're not really "liberals" then... (If people are going to try and tell me that Mormons aren't really Christians, when they do believe in Christ, then I'll cry foul and say that the "liberals" you refer to aren't actually liberal. It's either one way or the other)

You must really not be to familiar with these religions. Mormons are in no way Christian but a cult from Christianity which is what might confuse you. Mormons in no way follow The Bible's Jesus and his teachings. One big difference is that Christians are saved by grace and grace alone while Mormons believe you only get to heaven through good works. Another huge difference is that christians believe there is one god (monotheism) while they believe in multiple gods (polytheism) our God was once a man in another world who earned God-hood by a council of Gods and became a god and that they will become Gods of their own world later in life. The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man. Example:

Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123:
"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

and in the Bible Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Another thing I want to point out is that the mormon Jesus and christian Jesus are not the same. The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man-god, the brother of Lucifer, and he married several of the Marys of the New Testament. He is not part of the trinity as the Bible plainly states. The mormons reject the trinity. In no way is the Mormon god and Jesus the same as ours.

Only those who believe in the real Biblical God and Jesus Christ have the right to use the name christian. Jesus even mentioned that false doctrine will appear. I'll close with this verse Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Maybe pandering to the left near election time - but not for the most part. And what the hell is it with people refering to people on the left wing as really negative things? Also, let's see what Bush says about Gay marriage:

Source:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/02/AR2006060201519.html

Yeah and i support that 100%. Some of these liberals are going to far trying to make homos seem moral. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51630
Even if you dont have anything against the gays why would you ever want an elementary school to march your young kids down an area where and i quote from the article," a number of businesses promoting pornography and nearly nude men and women in graphic sexualized demonstrations." The teacher also made the statement that it is a good experience for the children. THERE KIDS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. They shouldn't be exposed to that kind of stuff. If your going to support it fine but acts like this take it to the next level. Thats a big negative for me and all the parents with children that actually have any sense in parenting.

Also, are you familiar with Nancy Pelosi trying to cut funding for the troops. That just blew my mind. If you can't see something wrong with that then there is something wrong with you. Of course she realized it was career suicide and quickly changed her position. Thats so horrible.

How about his views on immigration:http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060515-8.html, these certainly don't seem left wing to me.

No it doesnt sound left-wing but thats because he had some sense knocked into him. Read what happened http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041110-123424-5467r.htm
now that sounds left-wing and angered many conservatives.

Illegal immigration puts pressure on public schools and hospitals, it strains state and local budgets, and brings crime to our communities.

- one of the most conservative non-backed up statement's I've seen in a long time.

Squall, your posts amaze me yet again. I'm a criminal justice major, at a liberal university:scared: mind you, and have had many dicussions with my liberal professors and and a sociology professor and that statement makes perfect sense. Millions of illegal aliens are in the US and the number is still growing and what do you think is going and of course there are going to be many kids and do you think the left wing is going to leave them on the streets without the opportunity of getting an education...NO! They are going to be but in schools and cause major overcrowding and a very distracting learning environment, because lets face it, its harder to learn in a room full on noisy students and difficult for teachers to focus on every student there. Talk about stress on the teachers too. Even my University has researched and came to the conclusion of this thats what we have a small amount of students in each class. Hospitals, are this immigrants going to have medical insurance with their career, highly doubt the majority will. Guess how they are going to get medical care, yep the tax payers will. It will strain state and local budgets because a huge portion of those budgets will be paid for them to go to schools, get supplies, hospital bills, the list goes on. Taxes go up, tax payers pay even more of their hard-earned money. Ah, my favorite part, the crime rate going up in communities. Think about this you got pretty much all these illegal immigrants coming over here to "live the american dream" and live the good life. Who doesn't. Well the isn't going to happen with them being illegal (which will severely cripple them) and unable to find decent jobs that some even pay less than minimum wage for. Well they see these 40 in. plasma t.v. but they can't afford. What are they going to do. yep steal it. Thats why there are many houses, trailers are whatever that have these items in them while they have a family to feed and neccesities to pay for that they can barely afford. hmmmm. Also the get fake drivers liscense which causes problems for if they ever get in wreck, which happens to the best of us, and wont have car insurance to pay for the damages. I had a friend this actually happened too. The Mexican jumped out yelled i dont have insurance, jumped back in and drove off. That screwed my friend up pretty bad, especially since it wasn't his fault. The list of crimes and motives illegals can have is long and likely to happen with such a huge number in the US. There, statement has officially been backed.

He is an American conservative. American Conservatives are world renowned for having a hate for the left wing. You expect me to actually take his statements at face value about the left wing there?

That may be true that conservatives hate the left wing and vice versa, however if he makes very good points then yea i do expect me to actually take his statements at face value about the left wing as he should take yours you crazy liberal you.

Why not ask a Sony fan about the shortcomings of Nintendo?

Ok thats a really bad example. I love nintendo, grew up with it, and a big fan and also choose their system. My little brother grew up with sony. I stick with nintendo but i love playing sony, and my little brother does the same. They are both different but they both are equally fun to play. If your talking about the nintendo fans that say sony sucks because they are all about graphics and the gameplay sucks...uh no it doesnt. there is nothing not fun about using a gamepad like controller, the nes snes n64 and cube all had them and the gameplay was still a blast. Then you got the sony fans saying the wiis graphics is just a little bit better than the gamecube. The graphics look impressive for something not in hd and doesnt bother me and many others at all. Those people would fall under the extremeists

"Believe"? Isn't this what this entire thread's been about? Also, I notice you weren't saying that in the previous thread without portraying yourself as the "winner" of the debate.

yeah..pretty much. I did mention that in the previous thread about you just believing what you want and i'll do the same. Being a little forgetful. Well considering the fact i know christianity is absolute truth and you refuse to accept that.

True enough but by the same token, we're talking about someone that has just accused the "liberals" of trying to censor "everything".

well a lot of them do so why not bring it up.

Depends on your definition of "extremist". To some, "extremist" doesn't just mean violent. It can also mean "to propogate a certain ideology without concern for any alternate ideologies".

or it can mean both, but it doesn't take a genius figure out which definition should be used in most cases.

One could argue that MacDonalds has an extremist ideology for capitalism.

sure, why not...

No, but if they were to previously accuse conservatives of manipulating something, you'd surely not believe them either.

No, silly squall i would do my own research on the issue, its hard to trust politics period! I'm like that when it comes to my religion also, and other chritians should be that way to. If my pastor was talking about something i was not familiar with, i wouldnt just take his word for it, but do my own research in the bible. Talk with him about it. Learn, and we are all happy. Its foolish to just follow someone blindly when it comes to both politics and relgion. Foolish, Squall, Foolish.

You don't even know me, yet you've dissed me from the first time we debated. If I were to have a lecture from someone about this subject, you'd be the last person that had a right to do so.

Well if a recall, you didn't exactly win the "Most Respectful Wiichat Poster of the Year" award either. I'm flattered.....really I am.

Also, I'd just like to point out that he had already made clear his opinion about "liberals" beforehand, which is what I responded to. I didn't say he was a incorrect. I said that I wouldn't trust him (a conservative) to give me a "fair" (perhaps I should have said unbiased, but I think fair in this term means roughly the same) representation on what "liberals" are like. If he has a problem with that, I'll change the words fair to unbiased.

Fair enough. I don't know maybe you should ask him. lol

Also, I'd just like to point out that the documentary "Outfoxed" is a brilliant film, and takes into light just how right winged the media REALLY is.

Ok cool its not the whole right winged media just fox, which i also agree makes me sad at times, but it wouldn't give an unbiased opinion would it? Wow this video about Fox represents all right winged media as a whole right here *sarcasm*. Its Fox, c'mon even conservatives have problems with Fox.

 

[Squall7]

Ok so that article talks about fox showing cartoons that make fun of everything that goes on in the world. Thought this was about conservative right wing christians not allowing you to say God but Muhammed and all that other stuff and i dont see any proof on that article stating that and..its Fox, I've heard God mentioned in the news before plenty of times.

The article was about representations of Christianity in the media - and let's face it, most of the shows on Fox are not liberal.

You still don't understand what hypocrites are do you.

Sure I do. I'm talking to one.

If it looks like a christian, talks like a christian, but doesnt walk like a christian, it isnt a christian.

Well, protestantism walks slightly differently to Catholicism, and walks differently to methodist etc... Does that mean that protestantism and methodist people aren't Christians? All have a core belief about Jesus.

You must really not be to familiar with these religions.

Why because I don't see things the way you do?

Mormons are in no way Christian but a cult from Christianity which is what might confuse you. Mormons in no way follow The Bible's Jesus and his teachings. One big difference is that Christians are saved by grace and grace alone while Mormons believe you only get to heaven through good works. Another huge difference is that christians believe there is one god (monotheism) while they believe in multiple gods (polytheism) our God was once a man in another world who earned God-hood by a council of Gods and became a god and that they will become Gods of their own world later in life. The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man. Example:

Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123:
"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

and in the Bible Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Another thing I want to point out is that the mormon Jesus and christian Jesus are not the same. The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man-god, the brother of Lucifer, and he married several of the Marys of the New Testament. He is not part of the trinity as the Bible plainly states. The mormons reject the trinity. In no way is the Mormon god and Jesus the same as ours.

Only those who believe in the real Biblical God and Jesus Christ have the right to use the name christian. Jesus even mentioned that false doctrine will appear. I'll close with this verse Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Do they or do they not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God?

Yeah and i support that 100%.

Which just goes to show how right-wing christian you are.

Some of these liberals are going to far trying to make homos seem moral.

homo's? You mean homosexuals. Also, I warn you not to use slurs like that.

Even if you dont have anything against the gays why would you ever want an elementary school to march your young kids down an area where and i quote from the article," a number of businesses promoting pornography and nearly nude men and women in graphic sexualized demonstrations." The teacher also made the statement that it is a good experience for the children. THERE KIDS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. They shouldn't be exposed to that kind of stuff. If your going to support it fine but acts like this take it to the next level. Thats a big negative for me and all the parents with children that actually have any sense in parenting.

Also, are you familiar with Nancy Pelosi trying to cut funding for the troops. That just blew my mind. If you can't see something wrong with that then there is something wrong with you. Of course she realized it was career suicide and quickly changed her position. Thats so horrible.

Ye, just because something is published, doesn't mean it isn't conservative crap. The article was saying how "wrong" it was to make kids aware of homosexuality. Maybe if more kids were, when they get to teenagers, they'd be slightly less suicide rates (There have been some people that kill themselves because they cannot accept themsevles, because nobody else will accept them). Maybe not in such a graphical way, but some awareness is deemed "against a decent sense of parenting". Also, the only part of the funding that should go to troops, is returning them asap. That is also my left-wing opinion.

No it doesnt sound left-wing but thats because he had some sense knocked into him. Read what happened http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041110-123424-5467r.htm

"sense"? Sounds more like he just gave up trying to do something that nobody else wanted.

now that sounds left-wing and angered many conservatives.

How was hiding homosexuality from Children specifically left-wing?

Squall, your posts amaze me yet again. I'm a criminal justice major, at a liberal university:scared: mind you, and have had many dicussions with my liberal professors and and a sociology professor and that statement makes perfect sense.

Oh, trying to throw credentails in my face?! Who gives a crap if you graduated even from Harvard with a major in politics. Doesn't mean that you're any less unbiased. And by the way, I'm also doing a degree, but nobody gives a crap about that either.

Millions of illegal aliens are in the US and the number is still growing and what do you think is going and of course there are going to be many kids and do you think the left wing is going to leave them on the streets without the opportunity of getting an education...NO! They are going to be but in schools and cause major overcrowding and a very distracting learning environment, because lets face it, its harder to learn in a room full on noisy students and difficult for teachers to focus on every student there. Talk about stress on the teachers too. Even my University has researched and came to the conclusion of this thats what we have a small amount of students in each class. Hospitals, are this immigrants going to have medical insurance with their career, highly doubt the majority will. Guess how they are going to get medical care, yep the tax payers will. It will strain state and local budgets because a huge portion of those budgets will be paid for them to go to schools, get supplies, hospital bills, the list goes on. Taxes go up, tax payers pay even more of their hard-earned money. Ah, my favorite part, the crime rate going up in communities. Think about this you got pretty much all these illegal immigrants coming over here to "live the american dream" and live the good life. Who doesn't. Well the isn't going to happen with them being illegal (which will severely cripple them) and unable to find decent jobs that some even pay less than minimum wage for. Well they see these 40 in. plasma t.v. but they can't afford. What are they going to do. yep steal it. Thats why there are many houses, trailers are whatever that have these items in them while they have a family to feed and neccesities to pay for that they can barely afford. hmmmm. Also the get fake drivers liscense which causes problems for if they ever get in wreck, which happens to the best of us, and wont have car insurance to pay for the damages. I had a friend this actually happened too. The Mexican jumped out yelled i dont have insurance, jumped back in and drove off. That screwed my friend up pretty bad, especially since it wasn't his fault. The list of crimes and motives illegals can have is long and likely to happen with such a huge number in the US. There, statement has officially been backed.

I don't mean to be insensitive, but to be honest, I can't be bothered to read though your drivvel. You're obviously going to try to demonise Liberals. To be honest, I don't care. Also, you've only backed up the statement by your word. Let's face it, the US don't want to let illegal immigrants into the country in fear that their "standard of life" will go down. Perhaps if the US and the UK did more to help other countries gain the "standard of living" in their own countries, perhaps people wouldn't specifically want to come to the US or UK. Let's not forget that the reason they go to the US and Uk is because they have more job opportunities and better pay than they do back where they come from. That's not to say that the US should do what they do to Iraq - they've done a crap job of that in the first place. Perhaps pulling out all the MacDonalds and such would be a way to keep their money in their country, thus negating the need to go to the US to get money.

That may be true that conservatives hate the left wing and vice versa, however if he makes very good points then yea i do expect me to actually take his statements at face value about the left wing as he should take yours you crazy liberal you.

Very good points? He was accusing. That isn't good points, that's stating something without anything to back it up.

Ok thats a really bad example. I love nintendo, grew up with it, and a big fan and also choose their system. My little brother grew up with sony. I stick with nintendo but i love playing sony, and my little brother does the same. They are both different but they both are equally fun to play. If your talking about the nintendo fans that say sony sucks because they are all about graphics and the gameplay sucks...uh no it doesnt. there is nothing not fun about using a gamepad like controller, the nes snes n64 and cube all had them and the gameplay was still a blast. Then you got the sony fans saying the wiis graphics is just a little bit better than the gamecube. The graphics look impressive for something not in hd and doesnt bother me and many others at all. Those people would fall under the extremeists

To be fair though, Sony "fanboys" and Nintendo "fanboys" do look like extremists to some, especially to each other.

yeah..pretty much. I did mention that in the previous thread about you just believing what you want and i'll do the same. Being a little forgetful. Well considering the fact i know christianity is absolute truth and you refuse to accept that.

It wasn't my refusal to accept that. It was your refusal to see my opinion equal to your own. The use of your language made sure of that.

well a lot of them do so why not bring it up.

It's accusatory. To me, I see too many right-wing politics in all areas of the media, whether it be News Channels or whether it be Film or music etc...

or it can mean both, but it doesn't take a genius figure out which definition should be used in most cases.

Yes, but if you look back, I wasn't saying he was an extremist. I merely said that I wouldn't take him "too seriously". Doesn't mean I'm calling him a liar. I'm merely pointing out that some things would naturally be exaggerated or played down. In the extremist comment, I was trying to say that the word "extremist" may not just have a militant connotation.

No, silly squall

No, you're silly!

i would do my own research on the issue, its hard to trust politics period!

Surely it's even more difficult and dangerous to trust the media also?!

I'm like that when it comes to my religion also, and other chritians should be that way to.

"Should be that way too"? Sounds a little fascist. Shouldn't it be "I'd encourage other Christians to..."?

If my pastor was talking about something i was not familiar with, i wouldnt just take his word for it, but do my own research in the bible.

Fundamental difference - The Bible is not exactly full of objection. If I wanted to know something, I'd research multiple sources and come to my own conclusion.

Learn, and we are all happy.

You can "Learn" lies too you know...

Its foolish to just follow someone blindly when it comes to both politics and relgion. Foolish, Squall, Foolish.

I'm sorry, which one of us is actually part of a community that is politically or religously based? If you guessed yourself, then you'd be correct. If you guessed me, you'd be wrong.

You don't even know me, yet you've dissed me from the first time we debated. If I were to have a lecture from someone about this subject, you'd be the last person that had a right to do so.

Well if a recall, you didn't exactly win the "Most Respectful Wiichat Poster of the Year" award either. I'm flattered.....really I am.

Not in any of the threads that I've debated you in, but I consider myself quite polite otherwise.

Fair enough. I don't know maybe you should ask him. lol

Well, he's posted on here after the "offending" post, and hasn't said anything. I'm assuming everything is fine.
*Hears a sniper riffle being loaded in the background*

Ok cool its not the whole right winged media just fox, which i also agree makes me sad at times, but it wouldn't give an unbiased opinion would it? Wow this video about Fox represents all right winged media as a whole right here *sarcasm*. Its Fox, c'mon even conservatives have problems with Fox.

Yes, but what has been apparent is that a lot of other news channels fall behind Fox when it comes to things like presidential elections...
Also, Fox is owned by Rupert Murdock whom owns a whole host of conservative channels, networks, newspapers etc....

Also, here's a trailer for Outfoxed:
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIVnwYGU9Qo[/MEDIA]

P.S. I apologise if there's any spelling mistakes and such, I've suddenly grown board of this topic, especially considering it's just gotten into a left-wing/right-wing debate. Anyone for a filmic debate? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Sure I do. I'm talking to one.

Yeah...like I thought...you don't have a clueut:

Well, protestantism walks slightly differently to Catholicism, and walks differently to methodist etc... Does that mean that protestantism and methodist people aren't Christians? All have a core belief about Jesus.

You really dont get it. A christian is someone who believes in Jesus and that they are saved by grace alone. They try to live their life by Jesus's teachings. They can worship God in their own way likes baptists baptize and methodists sprinkle but each follows the holy bible and fully believe in it and try to live by it. Thats what makes a christian a christian. Some Christians don't even choose a denomination but there is nothing wrong with that.

Why because I don't see things the way you do?

Perhaps, but it seems like something else. But hey, i dont know you so I don't see the point of getting into it.

Do they or do they not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God?

Are you that simple Squall. Let me rephrase that, they do believe Jesus Christ is the son of one of many Gods. Did you not read what i wrote. Let me explain the key difference again. A christian is someone who believes Jesus is the One and Only son of God and believe that you are saved purely by grace. Mormons don't believe in being saved by grace which was completely against what Jesus taught and that they are strictly saved by doing good works. They also dont even follow the holy bible, but their own book. Note that in the following verses the Bible says salvation, which is forgiveness of sin and receiving of eternal life, is a gift of God, and it is not obtained by "works":"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9) and "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

Which just goes to show how right-wing christian you are.

I may be a conservative but my motives have to do with the Bible and God..well ya know finding the whole act of that detestable and a way of defiling his plan for marriage for a man and woman. Homosexuality is a sin and if your going to do that then your going to face the consequences by God, not me. There is just no way I am going to support a sin and that from a religious stance, not a political one. No christian should be supporting a sinful act.

homo's? You mean homosexuals. Also, I warn you not to use slurs like that.

Well of course i mean homosexuals but use homo's for short. lol wow...you got me scared now oh mighty keyboard warrior. Well i like you Squall so I'll type homosexuals from now on when i bring it up.[/QUOTE]

Ye, just because something is published, doesn't mean it isn't conservative crap. The article was saying how "wrong" it was to make kids aware of homosexuality. Maybe if more kids were, when they get to teenagers, they'd be slightly less suicide rates (There have been some people that kill themselves because they cannot accept themsevles, because nobody else will accept them). Maybe not in such a graphical way, but some awareness is deemed "against a decent sense of parenting". Also, the only part of the funding that should go to troops, is returning them asap. That is also my left-wing opinion.

Now your shifting the issue to teenagers, which i'm sure will be aware of it by then. THIS ARTICLE IS TALKING ABOUT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS! They aren't even done or even started puberty yet. Thats just sick making them march through some nasty part of town full of porno stores, hookers, and half naked gay men walking around the street and making the kids march for homosexuality. "Maybe not in such a graphical way" wow well partly agree on something but elementary schools shouldnt be doing that period. "Also, the only part of the funding that should go to troops, is returning them asap" hey i'm right-wing and I agree with you but have you ever considered that maybe if we did pull them out asap then the taliban would completely overrun Iraq and take it over. Iraq is not ready to give to be own there own and the left-wings need to cool their jets giving Iraq's fragile government to much control to soon.

"sense"? Sounds more like he just gave up trying to do something that nobody else wanted.

Uh.... no.I've read in the newspaper plenty of articles where a bunch of left-wings wanted that and saying we should just welcome the illegals and leave them alone.

How was hiding homosexuality from Children specifically left-wing?

I never said that. Trying to promote homosexuality is one thing. Going far enough to use elementary school kids to promote homosexuality by having them march through some std infested neighborhood holding gay banners is something else. Maybe middle school when they start going to the sex ed. classes but elementary school. The goes for just sex in general. If they want to know early the parents can explain it to them. By the way your quoted a post the the illegal immigration section when you made the above quote about homosexuality if you didn't notice.

Oh, trying to throw credentails in my face?! Who gives a crap if you graduated even from Harvard with a major in politics. Doesn't mean that you're any less unbiased. And by the way, I'm also doing a degree, but nobody gives a crap about that either.

I give a crap along and i'm happy your earning a degree to. Opens many doors and better opportunities in the work force. Whats your major? Yeah a degree doesn't make anyone less unbiased. I'm just stating I'm a criminal justice major and I'm just giving you an honest opinion from myself and man other professor that have had many years experience in the criminal justice field. This is coming from judges, lawyers, gbi agents, us marshals, and wardens.

I don't mean to be insensitive, but to be honest, I can't be bothered to read though your drivvel. You're obviously going to try to demonise Liberals. To be honest, I don't care. Also, you've only backed up the statement by your word. Let's face it, the US don't want to let illegal immigrants into the country in fear that their "standard of life" will go down. Perhaps if the US and the UK did more to help other countries gain the "standard of living" in their own countries, perhaps people wouldn't specifically want to come to the US or UK. Let's not forget that the reason they go to the US and Uk is because they have more job opportunities and better pay than they do back where they come from. That's not to say that the US should do what they do to Iraq - they've done a crap job of that in the first place. Perhaps pulling out all the MacDonalds and such would be a way to keep their money in their country, thus negating the need to go to the US to get money.

LOL if you didnt read it then how do you know its drivvel. You won't even find the word liberal in there. I gave you an educated backed up stance for the quote and then you say you dont care. Just like a liberal, how typical. Well i suppose the US could do more, the most recent thing i read was that the US gave 15 billion dollars to Africa to fight AIDS. Yeah well also consider the fact that some, not all, of these countries don't do their part in improving their standard of living. Also, it isn't right to hurt the standard of living for american citizens, especially the poorer ones because its their jobs they are taking. Notice i read the drivvel you wrote therefore i can call it drivvel. The nerve.

Very good points? He was accusing. That isn't good points, that's stating something without anything to back it up.

Well since i know what he means because i've seen it myself they are very good points. He shouldn't need anything to back it up because its really easy to see it here in the US. Don't know about jolly ol' England but i'm sure it wouldn't be to hard for you to dig somethng up. I would be more than happy to if I had more time at the moment.

To be fair though, Sony "fanboys" and Nintendo "fanboys" do look like extremists to some, especially to each other.

If your a particular fan boy for a system then whatever good for you. But when its someone who likes one and hates the other because of a graphics or controller difference thats just stupid. Every system has good and bad games. Buy the system you want be happy with it and if your friend has a different one you can enjoy other games at his house. I love video games about as much as most of the people on here but they are just videogames. Enjoy the ones you like and let others enjoy the ones they like. They a just electronics designed to give someone a good time.

It wasn't my refusal to accept that. It was your refusal to see my opinion equal to your own. The use of your language made sure of that.

Well yeah what do you expect when I believe christianity is the absolute truth. So why would to belief be equal when you don't accept it as an absolute truth. I'm glad I made sure of that. But hey believe what you want to believe. I do hope you find the truth one day.

Surely it's even more difficult and dangerous to trust the media also?!

like i said before i would do my own research on the issue

"Should be that way too"? Sounds a little fascist. Shouldn't it be "I'd encourage other Christians to..."?

yes they should, if . how is finding something own their own terms and not just completely listening to one certain person fascist? there have been several cases were some so called pastors have mislead people and they didn't even realize it. You can't be to careful these days living in this corrupt world.

You can "Learn" lies too you know...

Unfortunately yes thats why you have to be careful and compare what is stated clearly in the Bible.

I'm sorry, which one of us is actually part of a community that is politically or religously based? If you guessed yourself, then you'd be correct. If you guessed me, you'd be wrong.

and where are you going with this......:wtf:

Not in any of the threads that I've debated you in, but I consider myself quite polite otherwise.

Yeah i did back in that christian thread. Yeah you would.

Well, he's posted on here after the "offending" post, and hasn't said anything. I'm assuming everything is fine.
*Hears a sniper riffle being loaded in the background*

Wow thats a funny thought because he'd be right behind you with a sniper rifle shooting you almost point blank.

 

[Squall7]

Yeah...like I thought...you don't have a clueut:

Think what you like. It doesn't change a thing.

You really dont get it. A christian is someone who believes in Jesus and that they are saved by grace alone. They try to live their life by Jesus's teachings. They can worship God in their own way likes baptists baptize and methodists sprinkle but each follows the holy bible and fully believe in it and try to live by it. Thats what makes a christian a christian. Some Christians don't even choose a denomination but there is nothing wrong with that.

I "really don't get it"? Hey, just believe what you like. I won't be losing sleep over it.

Perhaps, but it seems like something else. But hey, i dont know you so I don't see the point of getting into it.

Fair enough. You don't know me, but you also talk down to me. Shouldn't you be treating me like you would wnt to be treated. That's a code that even I follow.

Are you that simple Squall.

No. As you've stated above, you don't know me.

Let me rephrase that, they do believe Jesus Christ is the son of one of many Gods. Did you not read what i wrote. Let me explain the key difference again. A christian is someone who believes Jesus is the One and Only son of God and believe that you are saved purely by grace. Mormons don't believe in being saved by grace which was completely against what Jesus taught and that they are strictly saved by doing good works. They also dont even follow the holy bible, but their own book. Note that in the following verses the Bible says salvation, which is forgiveness of sin and receiving of eternal life, is a gift of God, and it is not obtained by "works":"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9) and "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

Talking down to me again. Yes, I read what you wrote. I didn't agree with your definition. The key bit in Christian is Christ. Everything else was connoted afterwards.

I may be a conservative but my motives have to do with the Bible and God..

And that's where I'm different. Things should be in place for the good of people as a whole. The Bible doesn't do what's good for people as a whole.

well ya know finding the whole act of that detestable and a way of defiling his plan for marriage for a man and woman. Homosexuality is a sin and if your going to do that then your going to face the consequences by God, not me. There is just no way I am going to support a sin and that from a religious stance, not a political one. No christian should be supporting a sinful act.

If they're going to face the consequences by God, then do not get involved. Show apathy, not disrespect. Also, you seem to have gotten it into your head that Marriage is a purely Christian concept. It isn't. If it was, then we wouldn't have Muslims doing arranged marriages.

Well of course i mean homosexuals but use homo's for short. lol wow...you got me scared now oh mighty keyboard warrior. Well i like you Squall so I'll type homosexuals from now on when i bring it up.

To be fair, homo only means man. We call ourselves Homosapiens.

Now your shifting the issue to teenagers, which i'm sure will be aware of it by then. THIS ARTICLE IS TALKING ABOUT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS! They aren't even done or even started puberty yet. Thats just sick making them march through some nasty part of town full of porno stores, hookers, and half naked gay men walking around the street and making the kids march for homosexuality. "Maybe not in such a graphical way" wow well partly agree on something but elementary schools shouldnt be doing that period. "Also, the only part of the funding that should go to troops, is returning them asap" hey i'm right-wing and I agree with you but have you ever considered that maybe if we did pull them out asap then the taliban would completely overrun Iraq and take it over. Iraq is not ready to give to be own there own and the left-wings need to cool their jets giving Iraq's fragile government to much control to soon.

I get that it is talking about Elementary School kids, I was just saying that it would have an effect when those kids become teenagers. I also noted that you targeted "gay" men here. Would it be fine if they were half naked straight men? And on the Iraq thing. So long as US and UK forces are there, there's going to be distrust and disturbances because there's soldiers who abuse the local population out there. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3759923.stm and http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/06/09/iraq8785.htm.

Human rights abuses in Iraq are now as bad as they were under Saddam Hussein and are even in danger of eclipsing his record, according to the country's first Prime Minister after the fall of Saddam's regime.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1651789,00.html
And it's even effecting women who serve on the US/UK side:

At least 37 female service members have sought sexual-trauma counseling and other assistance from civilian rape crisis organizations after returning from war duty in Iraq, Kuwait and other overseas stations, The Denver Post has learned. The women, ranging from enlisted soldiers to officers, have reported poor medical treatment, lack of counseling and incomplete criminal investigations by military officials. Some say they were threatened with punishment after reporting assaults.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0125-08.htm

Uh.... no.I've read in the newspaper plenty of articles where a bunch of left-wings wanted that and saying we should just welcome the illegals and leave them alone.

Personally, I'd be more concerned with trying to help out the country so that illegal immigrants aren't risking their lives coming over to the US (by trying to "upgrade" their standard of living).

I never said that. Trying to promote homosexuality is one thing. Going far enough to use elementary school kids to promote homosexuality by having them march through some std infested neighborhood holding gay banners is something else. Maybe middle school when they start going to the sex ed. classes but elementary school. The goes for just sex in general. If they want to know early the parents can explain it to them. By the way your quoted a post the the illegal immigration section when you made the above quote about homosexuality if you didn't notice.

I can't seem to find the video I'm after that shows a documentary on the Netherlands system of sexual education, but some start that education in what would be the equivolent to elementary school and they have the lowest pregnancy rates in the world.

Subsidised by the Dutch government, the “Lang leve de liefde” (“Long Live Love”) package, developed in the late 1980s, aims to give teenagers the skills to take their own decisions regarding health and sexuality. Nearly all secondary schools provide sex education as part of biology classes and over half of primary schools discuss sexuality and contraception. The curriculum focuses on biological aspects of reproduction as well as on values, attitudes, communication and negotiation skills. The media has encouraged open dialogue and the health-care system guarantees confidentiality and a non-judgmental approach. The Netherlands has one of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world, and the Dutch approach is often seen as a model for other countries.[3]

I give a crap along and i'm happy your earning a degree to. Opens many doors and better opportunities in the work force. Whats your major?

Film. But it's slightly going into cultural studies and history of Film and different national cinemas. Of course, because it teaches film history, we have to understand the contexts in which the films themselves are set.

Yeah a degree doesn't make anyone less unbiased. I'm just stating I'm a criminal justice major and I'm just giving you an honest opinion from myself and man other professor that have had many years experience in the criminal justice field. This is coming from judges, lawyers, gbi agents, us marshals, and wardens.

Fair enough.

LOL if you didnt read it then how do you know its drivvel. You won't even find the word liberal in there. I gave you an educated backed up stance for the quote and then you say you dont care. Just like a liberal, how typical. Well i suppose the US could do more, the most recent thing i read was that the US gave 15 billion dollars to Africa to fight AIDS. Yeah well also consider the fact that some, not all, of these countries don't do their part in improving their standard of living. Also, it isn't right to hurt the standard of living for american citizens, especially the poorer ones because its their jobs they are taking. Notice i read the drivvel you wrote therefore i can call it drivvel. The nerve.

Damn, just when I thought things were getting friendlier. Here's a little info on the subject:

There is also the phenomenon of “brain drain” whereby the poor countries educate some of their population to key jobs such as medical areas and other professions only to find that some rich countries try to attract them away. The prestigious British Medical Journal (BMJ) sums this up in the title of an article: “Developed world is robbing African countries of health staff” (Rebecca Coombes, BMJ, Volume 230, p.923, April 23, 2005.) Some countries are left with just 500 doctors each with large areas without any health workers of any kind. One third of practicing doctors in UK are from overseas as the BBC notes.

This is something we should be dealing with. Also:

On July 19, 2000, the Export-Import Bank of the United States offered $1 billion per year for five years in loans to Sub-Saharan Africa to finance the purchase of U.S. HIV/AIDS medications and related equipment and services from U.S. pharmaceutical firms. However, three southern African countries, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe rejected the offer because the loans would further the dependency and debt of African countries, while American pharmaceutical corporations would benefit. Another criticism such motions have received is that this ends up benefitting those companies who, in effect, get a free subsidy. In this way, U.S. corporate interests are advanced.

Sourcehttp://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Africa/AIDS.asp
Personally, I don't think we should just be throwing money at the problem.
As for the second point - there's a finite amount of resources for the world. By the population growth and the desire for maintaining a "better standard of living" those resources will shrivel up fast. Also, let's not forget that the level of poverty in both the UK and the US is nowhere near the kind of poverty that third world countries face.

Well since i know what he means because i've seen it myself they are very good points. He shouldn't need anything to back it up because its really easy to see it here in the US. Don't know about jolly ol' England but i'm sure it wouldn't be to hard for you to dig somethng up. I would be more than happy to if I had more time at the moment.

I'm afraid, it's not easy to see in anything we get. Half the stuff on TV and the media in general seems quite right-wing. Sure, you get some leftist bits here and there, but they come under such heavy criticism, and unwarranted criticsm. Believe me, we get enough US shows over here to see it.

If your a particular fan boy for a system then whatever good for you. But when its someone who likes one and hates the other because of a graphics or controller difference thats just stupid. Every system has good and bad games. Buy the system you want be happy with it and if your friend has a different one you can enjoy other games at his house. I love video games about as much as most of the people on here but they are just videogames. Enjoy the ones you like and let others enjoy the ones they like. They a just electronics designed to give someone a good time.

Good advice, but ill-directed. Whilst I maintain my stance on the PS3 being not worth the money, I have played and know the attraction of some PS titles - but none of which seem to be very exciting on the PS3 for me. However, I was only implying that to each other, Sony fans and Nintendo fans can be seen as extremists.

Well yeah what do you expect when I believe christianity is the absolute truth.

Fair enough, but...

So why would to belief be equal when you don't accept it as an absolute truth.

Because it's YOUR absolute truth. Accepting that somebody else has an absolute truth different to yours is not devaluing your own.

I'm glad I made sure of that. But hey believe what you want to believe. I do hope you find the truth one day.

I've found my truth. I've even tried to accept Christianity (probably for the wrong reasons), but in the end, I am what I am, and if I cannot believe in Christianity, then that doesn't mean I'm any less of a good person.

like i said before i would do my own research on the issue

But in the end, unless you're a professional researcher, aware of the dangers in assuming any method will give innacruate results, you will always be influenced by media, the environment, politics etc...

yes they should, if . how is finding something own their own terms and not just completely listening to one certain person fascist? there have been several cases were some so called pastors have mislead people and they didn't even realize it. You can't be to careful these days living in this corrupt world.

I meant the words "should be that way too". Conformity isn't always a good thing. Depends on what you mean by "corrupting the world". If you mean the level of capitalism that we're in, then I'd agree with you. If however you meant "immorality" I wouldn't agree. Whilst I think certain rules, codes and conventions are neccessary, I do think that the public should be made fully aware of why those rules are ther ein the first place. However, morality does stem from religion, and so I prefer to rely on ethics and my own sense of right and wrong.

Unfortunately yes thats why you have to be careful and compare what is stated clearly in the Bible.

Or from whatever text you're reading. But I do also think that things should be read with a negotiated reading.

and where are you going with this......:wtf:

Well, you posted:

Its foolish to just follow someone blindly when it comes to both politics and relgion. Foolish, Squall, Foolish.

This implies that a, I follow something blindly and b, I'm foolish for doing so. I was pointing out that I do not "follow" any form of organised politics or religion.

Yeah i did back in that christian thread. Yeah you would.

Thank you. I try to be as polite as possible, as it usually gets the best kind of responses.

Wow thats a funny thought because he'd be right behind you with a sniper rifle shooting you almost point blank.

He's right behind me? *gulp*

Ultimately, I'm finding that I'm spending way too much time scouring the internet for my research into these various topics, so I think this will have to be my last massive post for a while.

 

[Skippy]

You really dont get it. A christian is someone who believes in Jesus and that they are saved by grace alone. They try to live their life by Jesus's teachings. They can worship God in their own way likes baptists baptize and methodists sprinkle but each follows the holy bible and fully believe in it and try to live by it. Thats what makes a christian a christian. Some Christians don't even choose a denomination but there is nothing wrong with that.

You sure about that?

Matthew 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Note that in the following verses the Bible says salvation, which is forgiveness of sin and receiving of eternal life, is a gift of God, and it is not obtained by "works":"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9) and "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

Don't be so quick to discount works. Works are a manifestation of faith. If you say you have faith, but that faith causes no change within you, causes no behavior that follows that faith, then do you really have faith in the first place?

James 2:17
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

 

[Brawny]

what exactly are you trying to say there?? Works can get you to heaven? NO..... Stop randomly taking verses out of context.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

You sure about that?

Matthew 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.




Don't be so quick to discount works. Works are a manifestation of faith. If you say you have faith, but that faith causes no change within you, causes no behavior that follows that faith, then do you really have faith in the first place?

James 2:17
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

yes i am 100% sure of that and Jesus and the bible verses i mention in my earlier post say so. However, as a result of this grace and if you want to follow Jesus you will want to do good works. This is why i always say you know a christian when he walks the walk aka good works, etc. This does not get you into heaven but it shows God's love through you and God will reward you. If your a christian and dont want to do good works something is not right and thats where your verses come into play. I believe you misunderstood me. But it is grace and only grace that gets you saved, believeing in Jesus and accepting him as your lord and savior is all you need to do. Good works should follow after that.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9) and "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

 

[Skippy]

what exactly are you trying to say there?? Works can get you to heaven? NO..... Stop randomly taking verses out of context.

Apparantly you missed this part of my message that explains what I am trying to say:
Don't be so quick to discount works. Works are a manifestation of faith. If you say you have faith, but that faith causes no change within you, causes no behavior that follows that faith, then do you really have faith in the first place?

Don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say - faith and works are two aspects of the same thing. No, you can't "buy" blessings from God with works. But don't expect God to look upon you favorably if you say, "Yeah, I have faith" and then you live your life in a way that's totally contrary to what is acceptable to God. Faith leads to action otherwise it's just an empty gesture.


And since you think they were out of context, here's that full section:

James 2:14-26
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

 

[Skippy]

However, as a result of this grace and if you want to follow Jesus you will want to do good works. This is why i always say you know a christian when he walks the walk aka good works, etc. This does not get you into heaven but it shows God's love through you and God will reward you. If your a christian and dont want to do good works something is not right and thats where your verses come into play. I believe you misunderstood me. But it is grace and only grace that gets you saved, believeing in Jesus and accepting him as your lord and savior is all you need to do. Good works should follow after that.

That's basically the point I was trying to bring out - essentially fleshing out your earlier thoughts. Many people claim to have faith and think that they're all set but do nothing in harmony with their so-called faith. Just trying to clarify, sorry if that came across confrontational.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

That's basically the point I was trying to bring out - essentially fleshing out your earlier thoughts. Many people claim to have faith and think that they're all set but do nothing in harmony with their so-called faith. Just trying to clarify, sorry if that came across confrontational.

Hey no biggy

 

[Brawny]

Hey skippy maybe you shouldn't have said

You sure about that?