Christians

[LyricistSoldier]

OK, now I realize I misunderstood the argument. I thought you were arguing that there is nothing but absolute truth, when really, there are some absolute truths, like your molecule example, or even simpler, 2+2=4, and there are a just as many, if not more relative truths, a good example being when we say "Hey, look up at those stars." Really, there is no absolute up and down, just relative up and down. We are really saying "Hey, look outward from the center of earth at those stars." There is no up or down in space, in the universe.

Now all the confusion makes sense. So just to get this straight, you agree that there are both absolute and relative truths, right?

I'm not shure i get what you are asking. Something is either true or it is not true. The whole look up at the stars example doesnt work... Hey look up at the stars is a command or suggestion, it cannot be disputed true or false. As for up and down, It is true that UP exists. For in space all you would need to say "it went up".. its just the way you would describe an objects movement going in an above your head direction. You cannot dispute the truth or falsehood of up, there are no truths or falsehoods to an adjective.

A better example is... somone says.. "It is true that God is real". That statement is either true or false... you cannot logically say that its true for the speaker but false for you. That goes beyond all logical reason.

My point was just to establish that there is absolute truth. As far as wether there is only absolute truth.. for you to say that 2 contradicting things can be true at the same time, well... it forsakes the very definition of what truth is. So that brings me back to being confused about your question. That make sense?

 

[Gaz]

A better example is... somone says.. "It is true that God is real". That statement is either true or false... you cannot logically say that its true for the speaker but false for you. That goes beyond all logical reason.

For you to get a logical answer, you must first ask a question which can be answered logicaly.

 

[NateTheGreat]

I'm not shure i get what you are asking. Something is either true or it is not true. The whole look up at the stars example doesnt work... Hey look up at the stars is a command or suggestion, it cannot be disputed true or false. As for up and down, It is true that UP exists. For in space all you would need to say "it went up".. its just the way you would describe an objects movement going in an above your head direction. You cannot dispute the truth or falsehood of up, there are no truths or falsehoods to an adjective.

A better example is... somone says.. "It is true that God is real". That statement is either true or false... you cannot logically say that its true for the speaker but false for you. That goes beyond all logical reason.

My point was just to establish that there is absolute truth. As far as wether there is only absolute truth.. for you to say that 2 contradicting things can be true at the same time, well... it forsakes the very definition of what truth is. So that brings me back to being confused about your question. That make sense?

Alright, so you are saying you believe there are only absolute truths, correct? I just want to get that nailed down. Obviously, it's sounds like you do. Well, I think I'll say one absolute truth is that truth (unless regarding certain past events, laws of science/math, you get the point) is relative. You just proved my point when you were trying to dispute my example of up and down. You said "you'd just say something (some object) is going up when it goes above your head." THAT DIRECTION, "UP," IS RELATIVE TO YOUR HEAD!!! If you were an astronaut, you would not use those type of directions as it wouldn't make sense to anyone but you. Also, think about it. When on earth, you point above your head and say "up there" and then you point down towards your feet to say "down there." But your down is someone else's up because there are people on the opposite side of the world from you.

Here's a diagram made by your's truly to get my point across:

(click to enlarge)



Notice how "MY UP" is "HIS DOWN" and vice versa? That's because up and down are relative. Just one of many examples of relativity.

And your comments about relativity going beyond logic, you've got turned around. Relativity is all about logic while believing in a god is all about faith. That's what putting faith into something is: believing something is true without the need for logic or proof.

 

[Brawny]

Hmmm, sex with no condom, what is more likly to happen; an STD, Pregnancy or Emotional Dipression. well i will go with the second one.

If people who have premarital sex, use protection, then what consiquences are there?

i'm not saying adobtion is a bad thing, i agree with you that it is excerlent (not the best thing ever, that would be packaging for sliced bread) But it is not for some people, some people can't go through the EMOTIONAL DIPRESSION (as you put it yourself) of pregency at a young age.

I'm not scared of death, i may not believe in any god, i don't look up to anything, and i don't live my life by a book, but i do treat all life like it is something important.

I don't condone people killing animals for sport. but i don't go and portest about it, or voice my opinions about it, because at the end of the day, it's only an opinon, and you will never be able to stop it.

Sorry I've been gone, phone line was down. *cries*.

What!!??!!, STD's are very common, a lot more than pregnancy. Did you not get told everything? A girl can only get pregnant like 2 days a month. You can get an STD any day. Also, the depression is a lot more common than you might think also.

On the the second statement highlighted. If you are not able to go through the ordeals of pregnancy and postpartum depression, you should not be having sex. Why do you keep saying that you think there should be an easy way out? Why do you think that sex should have no responsibilities tied to it?

P.S. dipression, consiquences, adobtion, portest
http://www.dictionary.com

 

[~Marisa~]

Very well said, Brawny.

 

[Brawny]

thank you, was really mad because my phone was down for 3 days. I thought this thread might die by then. It's pretty big. I wonder what the largest amount of replies is. I know the photo album you started was pretty huge.

 

[~Marisa~]

thank you, was really mad because my phone was down for 3 days. I thought this thread might die by then. It's pretty big. I wonder what the largest amount of replies is. I know the photo album you started was pretty huge.

Yeah, I had no idea when I started the photo album that it'd get that big lol...you should consider getting cable internet

 

[Gaz]

Sorry I've been gone, phone line was down. *cries*.

What!!??!!, STD's are very common, a lot more than pregnancy. Did you not get told everything? A girl can only get pregnant like 2 days a month. You can get an STD any day. Also, the depression is a lot more common than you might think also.

On the the second statement highlighted. If you are not able to go through the ordeals of pregnancy and postpartum depression, you should not be having sex. Why do you keep saying that you think there should be an easy way out? Why do you think that sex should have no responsibilities tied to it?

P.S. dipression, consiquences, adobtion, portest
http://www.dictionary.com

And most STD's are easily cureable..
i doubt that there are ONLY 2 days in a month that a girl can get pregnant in, otherwise, there would be alot less accidental pregnancies.

i'm not saying that there shouldn't be responsibilites, but i have opened my eyes, and sex these days is not so much about getting pregnant, but about being close to someone you love, and for pleasure. maybe you should do the same.

 

[Squall7]

In my eyes, sex is something that is pleasurable and something to be entered into with care and responsibility. Only in cases of short serial monogamy and pologamy are there cases of STD's being a high risk in a relationship. Otherwise, it's sex with strangers (like one night stands and the like) that are problematic. Even then, many of those can be prevented by wearing a condom.

 

[~Marisa~]

And most STD's are easily cureable..
i doubt that there are ONLY 2 days in a month that a girl can get pregnant in, otherwise, there would be alot less accidental pregnancies.

i'm not saying that there shouldn't be responsibilites, but i have opened my eyes, and sex these days is not so much about getting pregnant, but about being close to someone you love, and for pleasure. maybe you should do the same.

Actually, most STDs are not cureable - only treatable, big difference. On the contrary to you saying that sex now-a-days is meant to get "close to someone you love for pleasure" is very innaccurate. It's true, that many people do have sex out of wedlock to get close to a loved one, but the majority of the people are sleeping around with "Friends" and strangers, one night stands constantly.

 

[Gaz]

Actually, most STDs are not cureable - only treatable, big difference. On the contrary to you saying that sex now-a-days is meant to get "close to someone you love for pleasure" is very innaccurate. It's true, that many people do have sex out of wedlock to get close to a loved one, but the majority of the people are sleeping around with "Friends" and strangers, one night stands constantly.

Ok so the people who sleep around, stand out more than the group i mentioned, doesn't mean they are bigger tho...

 

[Brawny]

Sorry if I am misunderstanding you but I think you have it backwards Gaz. You love a person, you wait and express that love through sex after marriage. Sex does not mean love. It is true that you can't get pregnant all the time. Try not to get too graphic but the egg only has the potential to be fertilized for only 2 or 3 days, then it gets flushed. The high number of accidental pregnancies is because there is a larger number of irresponsible people having sex.

 

[Squall7]

Sorry if I am misunderstanding you but I think you have it backwards Gaz. You love a person, you wait and express that love through sex after marriage. Sex does not mean love. It is true that you can't get pregnant all the time. Try not to get too graphic but the egg only has the potential to be fertilized for only 2 or 3 days, then it gets flushed. The high number of accidental pregnancies is because there is a larger number of irresponsible people having sex.

Here

Under the influence of progesterone, the endometrium (uterine lining) changes to prepare for potential implantation of an embryo to establish a pregnancy. If implantation does not occur within approximately two weeks, the corpus luteum will die, causing sharp drops in levels of both progesterone and estrogen. These hormone drops cause the uterus to shed its lining in a process termed menstruation.

This means that there's a theoretical window of 2 weeks. The 2 days is only the optimum time for conception, but not the only time.

Actually, most STDs are not cureable - only treatable, big difference. On the contrary to you saying that sex now-a-days is meant to get "close to someone you love for pleasure" is very innaccurate. It's true, that many people do have sex out of wedlock to get close to a loved one, but the majority of the people are sleeping around with "Friends" and strangers, one night stands constantly.

I think that's an exaggeration. It's mostly 20 somethings that are (apart from swingers, older porn stars and the unfaithful). Indeed, the concept of a 'girlfriend' or 'boyfriend' is not catered for, unless you count them as 'friends', but even so, one can be in love with a friend. Or are you trying to say that people have sex outside of a relationship?

I think the whole concept of 'sex' is dealt with very badly in both US and UK. Nobody really get's told the truth (Sex education lessons don't really provide enough information, and we get people not realising things like anti-biotics counteract the pill, or pulling out before climaxing means that you cannot get pregnant - both are the cause of some teenage pregnancies). Instead of saying stuff like "You should only have sex after marriage", perhaps what we really need to do is educate our children better. Perhaps something like the dutch model:

Subsidised by the Dutch government, the “Lang leve de liefde” (“Long Live Love”) package, developed in the late 1980s, aims to give teenagers the skills to take their own decisions regarding health and sexuality. Nearly all secondary schools provide sex education as part of biology classes and over half of primary schools discuss sexuality and contraception. The curriculum focuses on biological aspects of reproduction as well as on values, attitudes, communication and negotiation skills. The media has encouraged open dialogue and the health-care system guarantees confidentiality and a non-judgmental approach. The Netherlands has one of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world, and the Dutch approach is often seen as a model for other countries.[13]

In Sweden, sex education has been a mandatory part of school education since 1956. The subject is usually started at grades 4-6, and continues up through the grades.[14]

Source: Sex education

 

[Brawny]

You do know that the netherlands is home to one of the largest prostitution rings right?

 

[Squall7]

You do know that the netherlands is home to one of the largest prostitution rings right?

The Dutch legalisation of prostitution has similar objectives, as well as improving health and working conditions for the women and weakening the link between prostitution and criminality.

source: Here
The legalisation of prostitution has made it possible for improving health and working condititions. It's not the kind of seedy thing it is here and in the US, where prostitutes get low money, badly treated and often abused.

Let's not forget that it's 'society' that says it's wrong, and 'society' isn't always right. If soccer was banned, all it would do is drive people underground where they get no protection from the authorities and have poor living conditions. Same with anything else.