What is Right and Wrong?

[AndThen?]

That's a pretty bold statement you've made. Judaism and Hinduism go back thousands of years. Have we any evidence that people acted morally before the introduction of religion?

Bold statement? It was genocide...

And the reason I mentioned the Aborigines is because they weren't previously touched by today's religions...

 

[Xenithion]

I believe that the sense of what is right in built into us all, since we are born, but yes our upbringing defines whether we realize what is wrong and right. And thats all subjective anyway, and is becoming more blurred every day.
On a side note, a test was performed a long time ago, where some orphaned babies were set apart by a scientist, and their carers were told to not exhibit any emotions or say anything while in their presence. So they were fed and bathed and kept healthy, yet, after a short time, they all just died. We NEED care and love to exist. Which is where people are most susceptible to correct moral thinking, at a very young age.
Not sure if I kept to topic, but thats my input.
~Xenithion

 

[LevesqueIsKing]

Does anyone else get annoyed when people say that morality is something ~*special*~ that is instilled in us, as human beings, because we're ~*special*~? To me, it seems pretty obvious that morality is just something we've realized due to our increased intelligence. All that you have to do to be moral is look at situations objectively. A human thinks, "If I kill this person, that isn't fair," and an animal thinks, "If I kill this person, I get to eat." Animals aren't capable of taking on another perspective. We haven't been blessed with a completely different concept, it's just something that came along with the package of intelligence. Right?

 

[Deanis]

Wrong.

If Im brought up in a caniballistic tribe.....I am taught from birth that this is how to live, THIS is right.


for the other 99% of the world its wrong....

Who is right? Depends on your morals..... (here we go again).

 

[LevesqueIsKing]

...But don't you think there's a reason why that lifestyle was never popular and is virtually nonexistant today?

I understand that culture affects people's perceptions, but I don't think culture defines someone's moral potential. Are you saying that if the entire world (literally every single person) was racist against a certain group of people, that it would be impossible for someone to come to the realization that discriminating against them isn't fair?

 

[Deanis]

Potentially yes.

Think of Germany in WW2.

One man tried to wipe out a race. In his eyes, THIS was right. Did he realise what he was doing was so incredibly wrong?

If it was encouraged from birth that you were to kill a certain race for whatever reason, I see no reason why this opinion would change. Similar to being told to hate a race. Is this wrong? Definately. Are you told its right though? Yes. And so you go on believing this. Of course someone could convince you to think its wrong though, I'm not saying its a permanent mindset.

 

[LevesqueIsKing]

We obviously have strong disagreements in the potential of human thought.

 

[AndThen?]

Tyler, for what it's worth, I think you're totally right.

Deanis, everyone has a different "moral code"... while we both may think that the Holocaust was wrong, we may have different thoughts on other matters. There is no universal moral code, our personal morals are, as Tyler said, a result of our increased intelligence, and they are formed and shaped from our personal experiences.

Cannibalism is interesting, but understandable. You look at the people who fight wars nowadays, and the death penalty, where it can be perfectly "right" to kill people... it's not like cannibals are savages, they have moral codes - I think you'll struggle to find cannibals who ate their own family members, for example.

 

[172pilot]

Im surprised this hasnt turned into an argument, but i believe morals are different everywhere and they are determined by the people as a whole in that culture. Humans have desires and goals (these desires and goals depend on the culture, for example a small tribes goals might be to steal from another tribe so that they may prosper) that no other creatures have and to thrive as the dominant species on earth humans must cooperate, creating society, which determines what actions are debts to socitey and what actions are credits to society, so that the people as a whole can punish or praise. People acting in selfish ways, stealing from or harming others even though they are animal instincts and we are animals, hinder the progression of the human race atleast slightly (in modern cultures) and are seen as debts to society and are punished by the people. Morals are what that culture or society define them as, what helps that culture meet its goals are its morals, and morals change depending on how developed that culture is. It is easy to understand if you look at a less developed culture such as a tribe, killing within the tribe hinders that tribes progression (bad) killing an enemy to that tribe helps meet that tribes goals (good). Which is why law generally doesnt extend much farther than the culture that developed it.

This is what I believe to be morals and I wont argue my point. I just try to look at it logically, so you can disagree but I wont argue with you.

 

[navarre]

Potentially yes.

Think of Germany in WW2.

One man tried to wipe out a race. In his eyes, THIS was right. Did he realise what he was doing was so incredibly wrong?

He most probably did have some idea that what he was doing was wrong, at least in the short term, but he believed that in the long term, the world would be a far better place without the Jewish people. Think of the greater good, only it wasn't a greater good and didn't result in anything but the worst genocide known to man.

 

[Brawny]

Uhm, religion doesn't cause morals, but morals are not borne from society either.

 

[Deanis]

But society influences morals.

Religion kind of forces morals.

And to say we are born with the knowledge of morality is nonsense. The first thing our parents drill into us is "No!"...our initial thought is to do the wrong, and we are shown what is right.

 

[Brawny]

But society influences morals.

Religion kind of forces morals.

And to say we are born with the knowledge of morality is nonsense. The first thing our parents drill into us is "No!"...our initial thought is to do the wrong, and we are shown what is right.

I still think that if a human were born into no civilization whatsoever, they would still have some form of morality.

 

[navarre]

Religion did contribute to morality, but for the wrong reasons. Atheists are decent people, we just don't act morally to ensure salvation.

On the contrary, I doubt there are many theists who haven't considered the possibility that their religion may be wrong, and that the deeds they do may all be for nothing. I know atheists are decent people, but so are theists.

 

[Deanis]

Navarre obviously has no morals otherwise he'd get rid of Leona Lewis from his sig!


just kidding...but seriously.