Spiderman 4 theories, rumors and expectations

[surfinrach90]

And regarding the Sam Raimi and the film things, it should contribute, do you know why? BECAUSE HE'S THE ****ING DIRECTOR YOU BELL END! Do you not understand? What Raimi says, goes. It took Avi Arad and the Topher Grace's performance to win him over. Raimi does have a say, a HUGE say in fact and if he says Carnage is not going to be in his film, it's not going to happen. HE said this with Venom, but was won over. And it's going to take a lot more than Avi's word and good actor to get Raimi to put Carnage in his film.

Okay well I don't know enough about the whole original and marvel ultimate stories to debate on everything else you've said, so I wont.

But, as for this quoted bit above, obviously Sam Raimi has a very big say in it as he's the director, but he's got to follow the publics demand.

Don't forget that it's not only his decision, there's also all the other people working on the films, the story writers, co-producers and Marvel keeps a close eye on things don't they etc, etc..

And heck, there's even been talks about whether or not he's even going to direct the next one lol =]

 

[Wii_BrEnDo2007]

im finally gonna see spidey 3 at teh wiikend XD

 

[surfinrach90]

Awesome, hope this thread hasn't ruined it too much for ya if you're read it lol..

 

[Wii_BrEnDo2007]

i didnt and by as u said that thats a good thing anyways im gonna go get some shut eye

 

[the_flood502]

i've only ever seen the TV series (bear that in mind ^^)

but... what about the mutation saga (i.e. where spider man turns into a 'real' spider of sorts) and that vampire guy (the one with those blood suckers on his hand)?

when would those be brought into the movie series?

what about mysterio and/or chameleon guy too? ^^

and the black cat woman thingy (but i think she was in the kingpin saga =S)

carnage and lizard man are a pretty safe bet, and is a good idea... but would they base it on the underground lizard kingdom... or the carnage saga (where carnage and venom steal everybody souls to bring (something which i can't remember) back to life)

knowing the film industry they'll just throw something together at the last moment

NB: * I didn't think spider man 3 was all that good (playing HoD4 in the cinema arcade was better)... it was very 'sequel'... best part of the film was in the bell tower when symbote jumped off spideys body for a second or so ^^ *

 

[Hybrid]

Ok, retro_joe, this is from wikipedia:

"When the symbiote returned and bonded with Eddie to form the entity known as Venom, the supervillain unwittingly left behind a spawn which merged itself into Kasady's bloodstream. One night, Kasady murdered a guard and escaped prison, beginning a series of gruesome and seemingly random murders. At the scene of each crime, he'd write "Carnage Rules" on the walls with his own blood. He was found by Spider-Man, though the hero proved to be no match for the Venom spawn. In desperation, Spider-Man made what would be the first of many truces with Venom to fight Carnage."

You've got that story-line from the Ultimate Spider-man series, which the film s DON'T follow. So YOU get YOUR facts right, Mr. Great Debater.

Firstly, the Lizard being a **** enemy, ok that's just a clash of opinions, so there isn't a right answer but if they brought out Spider-man 4 with the enemy as the Lizard I'd be very disappointed.

"And retro_joe, don't quite know whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, not that I care, but Carnage without Venom would be ****. Carnage is Venom's enemy."
*BARGH* Incorrect.
Carnage is the spawn of the original Symbiote, not Venom. Thus why Carnage doesn't feel such Malice for Parker(The Symbiote remebers the qualities of the preivous host, thus why Spidermans spider-sense doesn't work with Venom).

Venom doesn't feel "Responsible" for Carnage, as stated, he lacks humanity. The reason he hates Carnage is because he's an impure halfbreed. In the comic, he calls Carnage "halfbreed" to taunt him into a bout. (Halfbreed: Symbiote fused with Human/Spiderman DNA).

You're wrong, read "Venom vs Carnage" and then we'll talk. Although there probably won't be a need to as you would have realised that you're wrong and look stupid. Actually I'll spare you the time of reading it, here's a few quotes from Venom in "Venom vs Carnage":

Oh, here's a good one - "I'm your father..."
This one is also good - "Carnage, I've loathed you like a son"
This is a VERY good one - "Carnage, my son..."

That enough evdince for you?

However, Sandman wasn't really an "Enemy of Spidermans", he only Robbed Banks(Enemy of the City), but Spiderman stopped him to keep the order.

Wrong. He went after him because he killed Uncle Ben.

As far as the rest of what you said goes, as I said earlier, that's the Ultimate series not the proper one. And don't try and say the films do follow the Ultimate series because they don't. Spider-man is a teenager in the Ultimate series, that proves it right there, doesn't it?

And regarding the Sam Raimi and the film things, it should contribute, do you know why? BECAUSE HE'S THE ****ING DIRECTOR YOU BELL END! Do you not understand? What Raimi says, goes. It took Avi Arad and the Topher Grace's performance to win him over. Raimi does have a say, a HUGE say in fact and if he says Carnage is not going to be in his film, it's not going to happen. HE said this with Venom, but was won over. And it's going to take a lot more than Avi's word and good actor to get Raimi to put Carnage in his film. And what you said about Venom and Carnage being the best in the Spider-man world, I agree 100% there are by far the best two characters, in my opinion. We seem to agree there. But don't you see what he did with Venom in Spider-man 3? They completely butchered him. Venom in the film was ****. I looked forward to seeing Venom just as much as anyone else did, but I was disappointed by his appearance. And you say Carnage would "PIMP", but going on what Carnage is, everything he represents, what they did with Venom and Sam Raimi's attitude towards Venom and symbiotes... do you REALLY think that a Carnage appearance would be "PIMP"? Think about it.

I look forward to your response.

One problem, they are in a way following the ULTIMATE series.
In the movie Curt only had one arm. That enough sais that they are following the ultimate a bit, and that curt has a bit of the symbiote.
Enough said.
On another topic they said that one character that appeared to die in the movie will come back.
It won't be harry because he is buried he is DEAD!!!
That meens it has to be Venom.
Because Venoms death was weird and didn't make that much sense.
When

Spoiler

Eddie jumps into the symbiote and the pumpkin bomb explodes he doesn't blow up, he disapears! that means that the symbiote and Brock could be somewhere in say space.?

Because noramlly you would see eddie exlode and go flying and burn up and die! think about thT!

EDIT:
i watched the film again and i noticed EDDIE skeleton..screw my theorie EDDIE is dead.
But venom could come back and take some one else.(like scorpion)

 

[retro_joe]

Okay, play ball.

"When the symbiote returned and bonded with Eddie to form the entity known as Venom, the supervillain unwittingly left behind a spawn which merged itself into Kasady's bloodstream. One night, Kasady murdered a guard and escaped prison, beginning a series of gruesome
and seemingly random murders. At the scene of each crime, he'd write "Carnage Rules" on the walls with his own blood. He was found by Spider-Man, though the hero proved to be no match for the Venom spawn. In desperation, Spider-Man made what would be the first of many
truces with Venom to fight Carnage."

If you trust wikipedia so much, please scroll down further to where it states: "Carnage meets the Black Cat during the Maximum Carnage storyline, but in Venom Vs Carnage they don't recognize each other. This contradiction continued in the Toxin limited series when the Black Cat sees Toxin
for the first time."
Venom vs Carnage is a different Storyline Arc. Kthx, Plz try harder.

You've got that story-line from the Ultimate Spider-man series, which the film s DON'T follow. So YOU get YOUR facts right, Mr. Great Debater.

It seems the films dont follow any of the Arc's; Comics, Animated series, original movies or Games, What's your point?

Firstly, the Lizard being a **** enemy, ok that's just a clash of opinions, so there isn't a right answer but if they brought out Spider-man 4 with the enemy as the Lizard I'd be very disappointed.

Only reason you'd be dissappointed is because its obvious you are comparing him to Venom. Of course against Venom, The Lizard seems like a lowly adversary, but he is more for the storyline than the action-packed fight scenes. The Lizard is as much part of the story as Mary Jane.
As is Curt Conners has already been in the first 3 movies, funny that.

You're wrong, read "Venom vs Carnage" and then we'll talk. Although there probably won't be a need to as you would have realised that you're wrong and look stupid. Actually I'll spare you the time of reading it, here's a few quotes from Venom in "Venom vs Carnage":

Oh, here's a good one - "I'm your father..."
This one is also good - "Carnage, I've loathed you like a son"
This is a VERY good one - "Carnage, my son..."

Again, Venom Vs Carnage is a different Story Arc, and here's a glimpse of information for you. The Symbiote, original Symbiote, bonded with Parker at first. He takes a piece to Conners, to find out 'what' it is. This leaves a part of the original symbiote on hold, Parker removes the suite, it then bonds with Brock.
Brock gains knowledge of spiderman because of the suit, thus why he can sling out webs and he cannot be detected by spidermans "Spider-Sense". because of this Venom believes he is now a higher being, the piece of original symbiote to him is inferior and he considers it his lesser spawn. Thus why he calls it "Son"
in some comics. They really are still one in the same being, its just the symbiote that attached to Spiderman for longer, gained his abilities. Once the piece of Symbiote in the lab is fused with blood, he does call him "Halfbreed" when he first finds him, also when Carnage is about to kill Blackcat, he calls
him "Halfbreed" to gain his attention, and get his attention off Blackcat(she told Venom she knew a way for him to fuse back with Carnage, he needed her).

However, Sandman wasn't really an "Enemy of Spidermans", he only Robbed Banks(Enemy of the City), but Spiderman stopped him to keep the order.
Wrong. He went after him because he killed Uncle Ben.

I take it you haven't read either the comics or seen Spiderman 3, because..

Spoiler

Sandman & Spiderman have a bout before Peter even KNEW that he was the killer. He had already believed that Burglar had killed him, and he had already taken out his revenge.

So no, he wasn't really an "Enemy of Spidermans" he only Robbed Banks(Enemy of the City). Which i used as a metaphor for Carnage not really being an Enemy of Spidermans, but he still stopped him because he was doing harm to the city.
So, how is a raging killing machine(Carnage) not an enemy of Spidey's? "Hrm, he's not robbing a Bank.. I'll allow it." *Shoots webs off and swings around the city* (WTF?) NO.. plz get your facts straight. It's idiotic saying he's not an enemy of Spidermans.(Sorry, but its true)
I stand by my statement.

And regarding the Sam Raimi and the film things, it should contribute, do you know why? BECAUSE HE'S THE ****ING DIRECTOR YOU BELL END! Do you not understand? What Raimi says, goes.

And every Director knows that if they dont try and follow what the fans want, their movies dont sell. Movies dont sell, they dont get money, they dont get money, they just wasted a few million bucks.

It took Avi Arad and the Topher Grace's performance to win him over. Raimi does have a say,a HUGE say in fact and if he says Carnage is not going to be in his film, it's not going to happen. HE said this with Venom, but was won
over. And it's going to take a lot more than Avi's word and good actor to get Raimi to put Carnage in his film. And what you said about Venom and Carnage being the best in the Spider-man world, I agree 100% there are by far the best two characters, in my opinion. We seem
to agree there. But don't you see what he did with Venom in Spider-man 3? They completely butchered him. Venom in the film was ****. I looked forward to seeing Venom just as much as anyone else did, but I was disappointed by his appearance. And you say Carnage would "PIMP",
but going on what Carnage is, everything he represents, what they did with Venom and Sam Raimi's attitude towards Venom and symbiotes...
do you REALLY think that a Carnage appearance would be "PIMP"? Think about it.

I liked Venom in Spiderman 3, he kept true to the idea; "Is takes on the abilities both physical & mental", his outer skin resembles Spidermans Suit.
He wasn't "Won Over", he realised that the following of Venom fans would shun the movie if he already said there would be Venom, then take him out.
Thus, losing the movie money.

One problem, they are in a way following the ULTIMATE series.
In the movie Curt only had one arm. That enough sais that they are following the ultimate a bit, and that curt has a bit of the symbiote.
Enough said.
On another topic they said that one character that appeared to die in the movie will come back.
It won't be harry because he is buried he is DEAD!!!
That meens it has to be Venom.
Because Venoms death was weird and didn't make that much sense.
When

Spoiler

Eddie jumps into the symbiote and the pumpkin bomb explodes he doesn't blow up, he disapears! that means that the symbiote and Brock could be somewhere in say space.?

Because noramlly you would see eddie exlode and go flying and burn up and die! think about thT!

Indeed, the movies aren't following any of the series, it has little it-bits of arcs everywhere.
Venom isn't just solely Eddie Brock, Mac Gargan(Scorpion) is taken over by the Venom Suit. So even if Eddie had been disposed of, Venom could still be in more movies.


Reason being my paragraphs are off is because i did this in notepad and kept pressing Enter >.<
And i CBF fixing it lol rrr:

EDIT: I wont be online for the weekend, so i'd expect at least one smartass reply by then xD

 

[zeon9881]

OK how about toxic (but i guess we would need carnage for that dam)

 

[retro_joe]

OK how about toxic (but i guess we would need carnage for that dam)

Indeed, Toxin is the spawn of Carnage, the first symbiote to join with Spiderman & not for his own gain.

 

[surfinrach90]

When

Spoiler

Eddie jumps into the symbiote and the pumpkin bomb explodes he doesn't blow up, he disapears! that means that the symbiote and Brock could be somewhere in say space.?

Because noramlly you would see eddie exlode and go flying and burn up and die! think about thT!

It's called an implosion =]

 

[Cadbury]

http://marvel.com/universe/Carnage_(Cletus_Kasady)

Read the first sentence. That's what I'm talking about.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Carnage_(Ultimate)

That's what you are talking about.

Venom vs Carnage is in the same arc as the first link, which is what I have been talking about. Venom vs Carnage does not follow the Ultimate seires which is what you've been going on about. so don't give me your "Kthx. Plz try harder" bullshit. With regards to Venom vs Carnage, you're wrong, what I quoted from Wikipedia and the Venom vs Carnage quotes, they are from the same arc, whether Venom vs Carnage is canon or not, I don't know. And with regard to the Black Cat not knowing who Carnage is, it's really not that big a deal and I'm sure it's just for the purpose of the story and if it's not canon then that explains why. Although it probably is canon because Toxin is born and he is now part of the Marvel universe.

So basically you've been talking about the Ultimate universe and I've been talking about the normal Marvel universe. Everything I've said has been correct with respect to the normal Marvel universe, of how Carnage gets created and everything going with Venom and what not. Everything you've said about how Carnage gets created is from the Ultmiate universe. So this is basically just a misunderstanding.

However, Sandman wasn't really an "Enemy of Spidermans", he only Robbed Banks(Enemy of the City), but Spiderman stopped him to keep the order. Only after his daughter dies Sandman becomes a true enemy of Spidermans, because he feels Spiderman interfering is what inevitably caused his daughter to die.

Sandman's daughter doesn't die, don't know what movie you were watching. He goes to the house and sees her and speaks to her. His ending line is something along the lines of "I just want to see my daughter". He becomes a true enemy when Spiderman goes after him regarding the death of Uncle Ben. They fight, Spiderman thinks he has killed him with the water, THEN they become enemies.

If they did follow the Ultimate series in the films, it would be a pile of crap. In the Ultimate series Carnage is hardly even a person, just a killing machine. He lacks depth of any kind. There's a number of problems right there, 1. No depth, makes for **** story-lines 2. Given the huge audience of Spiderman films, how the hell could they get a killing machine into a film without there being mass controversy? It'd just be wrong in a Spiderman film if someone went round killing the public. They'd certainly lose their younger audience due to the violence of it all and it would probably make it less enjoyable as a whole as it, as I said earlier, lacks depth.
So what are the other options for Raimi and his crew? They could put him but would have to change him completely. It is true that the Goblin's, Ock's and Sandman's stories did not follow the comics, or anything else for that matter. But what could they do with Carnage? If Carnage was to be in the film he'd be completely different as to how we have seen him in the comics and animated series. And I'm sure the fans wouldn't be happy with a Carnage, that isn't a Carnage.
What options do they have? They could follow the proper arc, the one I've been talking about. Where Carnage is spawned from Venom. But if they did this, they would either need to being Venom back, in which case they'd have a lot explaining to do (and don't give me the Mac Gargan crap, he has only recently been introduced, not Mac Gargan but him as Venom, and he is nowhere near as popular as the Eddie Brock Venom. And to do this also, they would have to introduce Scorpion, which would also require a lot of story and explaining, it just wouldn't be right if they were to put Venom back in as Mac Gargan, and Carnage spawning off Mac Gargan would deviate further and further away from any story-line we've seen in the Marvel universe. All in all, it'd be crap basically). Or alternatively spawn him some other way that's not from either the proper arc, or the Ultimate one. which probably wouldn't be a very good idea.

So look at the options, they can take the Cletus Kasady version of Carnage, in which case they would need Venom. Or they could take the Ultimate path, where Venom is not needed. But either way, they'd have a hard time trying to put Carnage in a film yet staying true to his character from the comics. So all in all Carnage would a bad idea to put in a live action film because he lacks depth and is a homicidal maniac. Which Raimi would not enjoy doing at all and the Spiderman movie fan base would lose a lot of its audience.

On another note, if you think that Venom is the best of the Spiderman enemies and they did a good job with him in Spiderman 3, then we have very different opinions regarding that. And you'll have a hard time finding Venom fans who think they did a good job on him in Spiderman 3, they butchered him. 10 minute screen time, **** voice, no plot or depth (regarding Venom not Eddie Brock) and a shitty death. They could have done SO much more with him.

 

[Hybrid]

It's called an implosion =]

picky picky Rach...
jk lol

 

[Darkonix]

Hmm.. here are my thouthts... So far Toby said hes getting tired.. blahblah.. Hes going to end up doing Spider man 4, because if he doesnt, I might have to go and get that role. Okay..

I believe Mary Jane is going to die in part 4. Gwen stacy already made an entrance in spidies life, and they both liked it.

SPOILERS!!!#$@!#%@$^#%&#%*&#$^*(^$(

As for villians... Please comic fans.. Were dealing with hollywood, Old spidy villians like electro/ Kavern/ old schoolers might not be in there becase of MONEY, People NEED to know who spiderman will be facing. Im surprised Sandman was in part 3, but all in all, it was good. I think Venom will come back AS EDDIE Brook. He MERGED with Venom before the Eddie died, and the guy from the 70's show did an amazing job btw, I was a hater until I saw him acting. As for the lizard... maybe.. Carnage Must be in part 5/6 as an ending for spiderman.. MAybe Venom and spidy team up and try to kill Carnage.. Sounds like a great ending to spiderman. Well those are my thoughts.. Sorry for bad spelling.. im typing fast and going to sleep. Night.

 

[Hybrid]

check it out guys just some sick LINKAGE
(ignore mate1 ever where.)

 

[Foxy]

Image the effects if Hydroman was in it >.<