Face it, Blu-Ray is needed

[SamuS]

Same ol crap? no. Just fixing those wild claims by someone who doesnt know me.

Cant deal with it. Then sorry bub.

What you dont believe thats me?

I don't give a crap whether or not that is you. The point is, it's not proof of anything.
You talk down to people because you claim you have superior knowledge of the industry, technology ect. I don't believe anything without proof.

 

[Shoko]

another topic that for some reason it still going. i just read the title and i knew it was stupid. this should end everything: no, blu-ray is not needed, especially not in the ps3. the DVD's war is not exactly over. get a damn dvd player. playing dvds on ur ps3 will wear it out anyway, like it did the ps2. probly not as fast, but it will. blu-ray, not needed. simple as that

 

[GamerCon]

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25597117&page=0

Did any of you anti-ps3 types ever think that maybe, just MAYBE, Sony thinks that Blu-Ray WILL be needed for proper gaming storage this gen, and that they're not just trying to screw everyone over?

Sure they wanted to push their next-gen video format, and the ps3 gave them the perfect means to do so, but it DOES still help with gaming, and they knew that, which is why they figured they'd get away with sticking a BR drive in the ps3.

So, who can we look to for an answer for the great question, "Is Blu-Ray needed this generation?"

....the devs, and the devs have spoken. Blu-Ray IS needed. To quote various developers that have developed for many platforms:

Mark Rein, VP of Epic Games, the developers of Gears of War, Unreal Tournament, and many other games, had this to say about Blu-Ray in an interview with computerandvideogames.com:

Mark Rein wrote:

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks.

Julian Eggebrecht, of Factor 5, who are the developers of the great Star Wars Rogue Squardon games, andw who are currently developing their first title on a PLayStation platform, Lair, has this to say when questioned by IGN about the advantages of Blu-Ray:

Julian Eggebrecht wrote:

The single level at TGS alone takes up 4 Gigabytes of data. We are using every ounce of that due to streaming of our textures. Sure you could chop them all down to tiny sizes and we would fit, but then again, it would not be the same game. In addition to all the textures and geometry, we also do have video on the disc, and all of that is in native 1080p resolution. Thanks to Blu-Ray we don't need to worry about that and can still fit the whole game on a single disk.

Brian Hastings, chief creative officer of Insomniac Games, the developers of the Ratchet & Clank series and Resistance: Fall of Man, had this to say about Blu-Ray in his blog "10 Reasons Why PS3 Will Win This Console Generation". This also explains why Gears of War's singleplayer was so short and the game had so few multiplayer maps. Maps take up space people! Read it here:

Brian Hastings wrote:

If you ever hear someone say "Blu-Ray isn't needed for this generation," rest assured they don't make games for a living. At Insomniac, we were filling up DVDs on the PS2, as were most of the developers in the industry. We compressed the level data, we compressed the mpeg movies, we compressed the audio, and it was still a struggle to get it to fit in 6 gigs. Now we've got 16 times as much system RAM, so the level data is 16 times bigger. And the average disc space of games only gets bigger over a console's lifespan. As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

Granted, some really great Xbox 360 games have squeezed onto a DVD9. Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM. It also means that you're going to chew up more disc space for each level. With streamed textures, streamed geometry and streamed audio, even with compression, you can quickly approach 1 GB of data per level. That inherently limits you to a maximum of about 7 levels, and that's without multiplayer levels or mpeg cutscenes.

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures. Resistance also had 30 single-player chapters, six multiplayer maps, uncompressed audio streaming, and high-definition mpegs. That all added up to a lot of space on the disc. Starting with Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction we are supporting texture streaming, which will make the worlds look even better, and will also consume even more space on disc.

There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.

Also, Casey Hudson, the project director overseeing Mass Effect, has said that the game originally would've never been able to fit on a sinlgle DVD9, but that through heavy optimization, they managed to fit the game on one disc. How much of that time could've been spent working on the game itself, rather than working on how much space the game takes up? How much did they cut from the game to get it on one disc? How big will Mass Effect 2 be? Here's the quote:

Joystiq interview with Casey Hudson wrote:

During a Q&A update, project director Casey Hudson confirmed that Mass Effect "is a monstrous game. In fact, there was a time -- not too long ago -- when we pretty much scoffed at the idea of fitting onto one disc. But, there's an art to optimizing the data that goes on a disc"; Mass Effect will fit onto a single disc -- "but just barely."

And here's a quote from Hideo Kojima, in reference to the fact that MGS4 is pushing the limits of a single-layered BD-rom, which holds 25gb of data, in comparison to a dual-layered BD-rom which can hold 50 gb of data. This is due to his heavy use of uncompressed audio and other fancy things. After all, this is the "HD Era":

Hideo Kojima wrote:

Blu-Ray is to small for Metal Gear Solid 4.

And my final developer quote, is the controversial quote from David Jaffe, the director of the Twisted Metal and God of War series, that he made during "The Bonus Round" on Gametrailers.com. He said that he personally would've left Blu-Ray out of the ps3, in an effort to make it cheaper, get it to market sooner, and garner more sales. However, he also says that doing this most likely would screw him over inthe long run, as the storage space of Blu-Ray would most likely be needed:

David Jaffe wrote:

This will bite me in the ass in four years, because it was probably a smart decision, but I probably would have taken the Blu-ray out and sold it for less money.

Also, it seems that Itagaki, the lead developer of Team Ninja, is also quite discontent with the use of DVD in the 360. In an interview with Famitsu, he said that just the Dead or Alive 4 TRAILER would take 2gb of space in high definition, so think about how much space even a tiny cutscene between every level in a game could take up. Here's some of what he said:

Itagaki wrote:

The screen resolution for Xbox 360 games will be in high definition, so the pre-rendered movies are going to be pretty large. If we encoded the Dead or Alive 4 trailer from E3 in high definition in a quality acceptable to us, it will easily be about 2GB. [...] With DOA4, we'll be using the disc's capacity to its full extent. We started development on DOA4 pretty early, and we didn't know what disc format the Xbox 360 was going to adopt. So when we learned about it, we were really knocked out.

So, can anybody find a dev quote that says that Blu-Ray just isn't needed?

 

[Shiftfallout]

I don't give a crap whether or not that is you. The point is, it's not proof of anything.
You talk down to people because you claim you have superior knowledge of the industry, technology ect. I don't believe anything without proof.

Rather I just used logic and facts to counter claims that were NOT made with them. Thats the key difference. I talk down to you specifically because you said some of the most stupid crap i have ever seen posted on the interwebs.

I mean, seriously. Did you actually read what you said? I just cant believe you were actually serious.

btw its more proof than guessing im some kid in a basement.
I guess this would be the link that would change all that. http://www.myspace.com/shiftfallout

Sorry bub, scoot along now.

another topic that for some reason it still going. i just read the title and i knew it was stupid. this should end everything: no, blu-ray is not needed, especially not in the ps3. the DVD's war is not exactly over. get a damn dvd player. playing dvds on ur ps3 will wear it out anyway, like it did the ps2. probly not as fast, but it will. blu-ray, not needed. simple as that

Did you bother to actually READ the OP?

 

[JeremyGTS]

could i get a ****ing link to the source that said the revolution was supposed to be better than the other 2 systems?? i tried to wiki it and found nothing also google. so i did try to find it...

yeah its my turn move over i need to find a good spot......:scared:

 

[Mr.Selfdestruct]

Double Post...

 

[Mr.Selfdestruct]

Its probably you. But i guarantee you live with your parents.


I also have a friend that lives in Hollywood, he's a commercial actor, he's currently in Ford, Coors Light and Pizza Hut commercials airing currently on national television, and he probably brings in twice what you make, and he lives in a crap apartment and still has to work another job.



You live in your parents 1930's apartment, c'mon now be honest.


But ya back on topic Blue ray, not necissary, and infact still shaky technology.


Shiftallout, wheres your response to the fact that Sony hasn't had much luck with the Memory Stick, Betamax (you sort of responded) and Mini Disc ? All failures on Sony's part.

Man you have alot of faith in a company that has time after time failed with new media.


You compare yourself to a Programmer because you know basic website code ? Dude, i learned how to write code for websites in a crash course using Dreamweaver.

Just because you know how to use Dreamweaver doesnt make you a programmer !!!


Hahaha, Fabio ? Man your really rubbing elbows with Hollywood Elite !!!

 

[Shiftfallout]

Its probably you. But i guarantee you live with your parents.

LoL. Nope, sorry I live by myself. Pay all the bills, have my own SUV, the works. I support myself.

Your guarantee is wrong lol. I love how you are so confident about something thats not even true.

I also have a friend that lives in Hollywood, he's a commercial actor, he's currently in Ford, Coors Light and Pizza Hut commercials airing currently on national television, and he probably brings in twice what you make, and he lives in a crap apartment and still has to work another job.

Commercials...pfft lol. Honestly I would hardly call that real acting, once you are stuck in them you get type casted as a commercial guy. Those companies like to pay as little as possible and its one step above being a movie extra.

Actually I make quite a lot of money. But not because of film, but from many sources of income that I get. I dabble in a lot of things (all legal of course). And I have too much free time on my hands to boot. Just recently I got a check for 15,000 dollars. What did I do? sent 1 email to the right person. Bam, $9,000 richer and all I did was sell something via an email. Took me no more than 5 minutes to make that 9,000. Now use your imagination and imagine I send quite a few emails to the right people every month. Easy income outside of film. I actually send a lot of it to my family who needs it more than I do.

You live in your parents 1930's apartment, c'mon now be honest.

Nope sorry to burst your vision of me. Parents live in their beach house in san diego. I live in Los Angeles on my own. Kind of impossible for me to live in my parents place now isnt it.

But ya back on topic Blue ray, not necissary, and infact still shaky technology.

Whats shakey about it? in fact. Explain to me what is shakey about it? You know its just like a DVD right? only it uses a blue laser instead, which can read the alloy they can pack into the roms. Theres a lil more to it, but it still uses the basic dvd concept and reading patterns.

Kinda funny how you are saying its not necessary when the OP put a link of a bunch of well known developers saying it is necessary. Hmm i wonder who is more believable. You or a list of developers? I will go with those developers.

Shiftallout, wheres your response to the fact that Sony hasn't had much luck with the Memory Stick, Betamax (you sort of responded) and Mini Disc ? All failures on Sony's part.

I never said all of sony's storage mediums were a success. I did say betamax didnt do well with consumers but boomed with professionals who made movies in the film industry. The minidisc made quite a bit of profit, it also lead to other technologies that were developed but it wasnt an easy to use format. I know, I used to own one. Still they stuck around for awhile.
The memory sticks are actually quite popular and useful. One memory stick can be used between a ton of sony products and some non sony products. There was such a market for them that third party developers made them too. Its amazing that with one memory stick duo I can store all my old nes/snes roms on my psp, then take out the memory stick, plug it into my computer, put images on it then plug it into my camcorder and use the images on that. You might notice many printers have ports for those memory sticks.

Man you have alot of faith in a company that has time after time failed with new media.

Failed? hardly. Influenced.. yes. Look, you heve to remember without competition there is a monopoloy. Theres a rule that says when two companies fight for the better product, the consumer wins. And that is true, because consumers have a choice. Sony has a movie studio, a record company, tons of media all over the world.

Their media devices are a hit or miss. Without sony there would be no camcorder, walkman..ect Their mediums influenced how new media has evolved. Some of sony's media devices were a success, some where not. But they have the balls to keep inventing stuff, and thats the key point. All of sonys products were good, only not all of them were consumer friendly. THe playstation franchise is consumer friendly.

Again I MUST say, that blue ray isnt Sony. Its the child of 180 different companies. Companies like Apple and Disney. Sony is loyal to its customers.

Personally I feel safer with sony than I do nintendo that has a shadey past. For all we know nintendo is still in line with the japanese mafia, still running sex hotels even. I do not blindly trust in any one company. I believe that the companies have to be loyal to the consumers, and Sony has. When I see a good product I get it. The PS3 is one of them.

You compare yourself to a Programmer because you know basic website code ? Dude, i learned how to write code for websites in a crash course using Dreamweaver.

No i never said that and you know it. I said developers not programmers. Seriously lay off the spin and slander kid.

Just because you know how to use Dreamweaver doesnt make you a programmer !!!

try a txt pad and a lot of code dipsht. =)

Hahaha, Fabio ? Man your really rubbing elbows with Hollywood Elite !!!

I wasnt bragging. Just said he hit on a girl I was with. Would you rather me tell you about going to dinner with anjolina jolies father numerous times or hanging out his god daughter. I could tell you how I was chatting up paula abdule right before I started barking at her chiwawa. Your pick.

I tell a story, but you dont need to put meaning behind it. Dont be a douche.

 

[PtonJalken]

BRAVO!

Another freedom fighter has joined the ranks, the few... the proud.. and the $#%&ing logical!

Good post. Rep for you, and maybe a message :wink:

So basically,

Anyone who does not side with the few of you that always bring these big ol' posts about the Ps3 and its godlyness aren't logical or not a fanboy? ha.


Anyways, Blu-Ray will be needed for the Ps3. It does not take a genius to know that. With the graphics and maps that Ps3 developers are trying to cram into the new Medium its obvious. But it would still be possible without Blu-ray, they would just need to have it in multiple disks for installation etc.

But another thing that a non-genius can figure out (or anyone who has alot of sales-smart) is that Blu-ray being used is not going to help the PS3 Popular or sales wise by any large ammount. The Xbox360 is doing fine with its disk medium and it could eventually be increased. The Wii will probably not need several disks for many games (maybe a few games like Baten Kaitos, or the more graphically pleasing or longer games. But that is not the issue yet as you see with Zelda) since its system is not as strong as Ps3/Xbox360

Another thing, there is 3layer HDDVDs coming out, which hold more then the normal Blu-ray. Now im sure Blu-ray could make a double or even triple layer disk given the time but the price of the disk would have to rise even more too. Im sure the Xbox360 will take use of these Triple-Layer HDDVDs when they are eventually released (im not sure if they are out now or the date for them).

And guys, do not bother me about being some dumb fanboy or something. Since right now I have interest in all 3 systems (yes I have less interest in the Ps3, so shoot me. :ciappa: )

 

[Mr.Selfdestruct]

Wow, you make 9,000 dollars with just a phone call huh ?


And you live in Hollywood, and you drive an SUV ?


And you've met Angelina Jolies Dad ? (Who by the way she HATES!)

Man, im so envious of your playboy lifestyle, your so cool, oh wait, no your not.

You can say all the crap you want about whatever you want, but you know its B.S. i know its B.S. and the readers know its B.S.



If your life was so awesome (as you obviosly think it is) you wouldnt be on a friggin Wii website trying to impress people with your superior lifestyle.

Infact, im suprised you even had time to respond to every post of mine within 15 minutes like you've been doing, I guess you found time inbetween rubbing elbows with Tom arnold, Jean Claude Van Dam and Gary Coleman.

It is so, so, so, painfully obvious by this extremely gay, extremely cheap head shot (Suprisingly cheap quality coming from such a wealthy guy) that you are an actor/waitor/HOLLYWOOD BOTTOM FEEDER. You wish you could get the commercial work that you be-little.



Man i can write code in notepad. Beleive me, people would be suprised to find out how unimpresive code writing for websites is.


You really have to put your boots on when your talking to this guy !! Sht's gettin thick in here.

 

[Gymdawg]

Beta-max was an absolute comercial failure, weather they use it in the movie industry or not it was a commercial FAILURE !! Im sure you think Sony was extatic about the "Film Industry" picking up there technology rather than THE FRIGGIN REST OF THE WORLD !! just like MEMORY STICK, and MINI DISC, your actually defending the compitancy of a new technology/medium by using a company (Sony), which is notorious for having failed with new media mediums as your example, so who's the Dumbass ?

I'd say anyone who wastes their time in flame wars on the intrarwebs is a pretty big dumbass...

 

[Sovieto]

id rather switch between discs than pay an extra $200-300 some, but thats just me...

 

[sagema]

Well said Sovieto. I can also see the logic why Sony did this. They lost to VHS because Beta Max could only hold 60 mins, where VHS starting out could hold 2 hours, aka full length movies.

I agree. Shift if you were so successful, you wouldn't be here. I ran out of good online games to play since they canned RE File #2, and MGSO. I'm also not a fan of MMOs anymore. Yawnfest, grinders, farmers. I will not be here forever. Once a good online game like SSBB comes my way. I'm outta here.

 

[XwiimasturX]

blu-ray is a decent addition to the ps3 (i definately wouldnt buy it for the games :lol but i dont think its, as the title of the thread indicates, necessary. the wii and the 360 are doing fine without blu-ray. obviously only 3 million people care about blu-ray enough to buy a ps3, because thats how many were sold.

its allll about the sales, shift. its all about the sales.

 

[CyanRussel]

Well, when you really think about it, it is really all about the sells, cause if it doesnt sell than they would lose the business would go bankrupt!