Does God exist?

[Phoenix Wright]

I believe he does. Everything that has ever happened, everything that was prophesied, was all mention in the Bible. However, there's a big thing I like to point out to all the 'Christians' out there. Most Christians think that when Jesus comes back, we are to be 'raptured' into the air, and God will burn the earth. I would like to throw this out here. When I've read the Bible, it says that the anti-Christ, (Satin), will be the first to come out of Heaven. (There is no 'hell'. Hell is a lake of fire. Satin is held on some section of Heaven which nobody goes.) Anyway, he will come first, before the real Christ, and he will end up somewhere in the Mt. of Olives. There, he will claim to be the real Christ, and trick everyone to believe that, and attempt to rapture them away. Everyone who stands up saying he's the anti-Christ will most likely be prosecuted, killed, etc. (Which they won't, if they have faith in God) Now, before he takes us 'Christians' away, the real Jesus will come, and lock Satin for a 1000 years. There, the real Savior will relieve the confusion for all the people who were 'fooled' by Satin. (He isn't going to burn them in hell.) After he saves his children, which would take the approxiamte 1000 years, he will leash Satin out to the lake of fire, known as Hell. (ALSO!! Satin would be coming to earth once there is a World System thing going. This is when the world does everything 'exactly' the same, such as same money system, politics, education, religion, etc.) If any Christian is reading this, and doesn't believe me, read the Bible once in a while. It took me 5 years to understand all of this. But, back on topic, I do believe he exists. He acts in many ways, too. You see people in a horrific stage of cancer, and with one little prayer, they may be healed the next day. People who live in poverty would someday live a decent life. God works in many ways, and everything is supposed to happen this way. Why, this very thread could've been planned by God for me to post in. I do believe in him, and I always will. The Bible teaches 'great' morals, prophets, etc. That's my clean, easy answer about this thread.

 

[navarre]

I've started wearing a crucifix necklace around church, school and general activities. I think it is great way to identify yourself as a Christian, and ones for men are trendy and cheap.

 

[her01771]

I believe he does. Everything that has ever happened, everything that was prophesied, was all mention in the Bible. However, there's a big thing I like to point out to all the 'Christians' out there. Most Christians think that when Jesus comes back, we are to be 'raptured' into the air, and God will burn the earth. I would like to throw this out here. When I've read the Bible, it says that the anti-Christ, (Satin), will be the first to come out of Heaven. (There is no 'hell'. Hell is a lake of fire. Satin is held on some section of Heaven which nobody goes.) Anyway, he will come first, before the real Christ, and he will end up somewhere in the Mt. of Olives. There, he will claim to be the real Christ, and trick everyone to believe that, and attempt to rapture them away. Everyone who stands up saying he's the anti-Christ will most likely be prosecuted, killed, etc. (Which they won't, if they have faith in God) Now, before he takes us 'Christians' away, the real Jesus will come, and lock Satin for a 1000 years. There, the real Savior will relieve the confusion for all the people who were 'fooled' by Satin. (He isn't going to burn them in hell.) After he saves his children, which would take the approxiamte 1000 years, he will leash Satin out to the lake of fire, known as Hell. (ALSO!! Satin would be coming to earth once there is a World System thing going. This is when the world does everything 'exactly' the same, such as same money system, politics, education, religion, etc.) If any Christian is reading this, and doesn't believe me, read the Bible once in a while. It took me 5 years to understand all of this. But, back on topic, I do believe he exists. He acts in many ways, too. You see people in a horrific stage of cancer, and with one little prayer, they may be healed the next day. People who live in poverty would someday live a decent life. God works in many ways, and everything is supposed to happen this way. Why, this very thread could've been planned by God for me to post in. I do believe in him, and I always will. The Bible teaches 'great' morals, prophets, etc. That's my clean, easy answer about this thread.

evolution? please.
i've seen enough evidence to prove evoulution wrong before.
this is wierd. i didn't know that boz. but it is good you told meh. :thumbsup:
but, i don't really know. no one really knows. i believe in god but i don't really know in what bible to belive in.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

When you see a butterfly surely you will be filled with admiration for such an aesthetic display, a symmetry that is without the slightest flaw, the dazzling colors and patterns. Now think of a piece of cloth. Assume that it is a very beautiful piece of cloth of good quality that has been woven with the inspiration of these butterflies' patterns. What would you think if you saw such a piece of cloth in a shop-window? Probably, the existence of an artist, who has drawn the patterns of this cloth, taking the wings of a butterfly as an inspiration while drawing them, springs into your mind, and you appreciate his artistry. In this situation, you should also appreciate this fact: the artistry you admire doesn't belong to the person who draws the cloth pattern, taking butterflies as his example, but to God, Who is the originator of the patterns and colors of butterfly wings. The colorful wings of butterflies with their wonderfully varied patterns are magnificent manifestations of God's artistry in color. Just as a pattern on a piece of cloth does not come into being by chance, so is the color and pattern symmetry in the wings so perfect that they could not have come into being coincidentally.

Moreover, the splendid wings are not the only striking features of butterflies. The body design of butterflies is also perfect in every respect. The butterflies take in nourishment by sucking up nectar from flowers. Most butterflies have a long organ called a proboscis which they use to reach a liquid that is at some depth. A proboscis is a long tongue used to drink water or to suck up nectar from flowers. The butterfly rolls up its long tongue inwards when it isn't using it. This tongue can be three times the length of a butterfly's body when unrolled.

Like other insects, the butterflies also have a skeleton that covers the outer surface of their bodies. This outer or exoskeleton is composed of hard plates connected by soft tissue, looking like some sort of armor. The hard material is called "chitin." The formation of this layer comes about through a very interesting process. As is commonly known, caterpillars pass through a rather complex process called metamorphosis. The caterpillar first becomes a pupa and then turns into a butterfly. Throughout this process of metamorphosis, slight changes occur in the wings, antennae, legs and other body parts. Also, the cells in different key areas such as the flight muscles and wings re-organize themselves through every phase of metamorphosis. Furthermore, along with these changes, almost all systems in the body -the digestive system, excretory system, respiratory system etc.- go through a process of immense change.

Evolution.

And before you say anything, we've got mountains of evidence for it, from the fossil record, biogeography, genetics, comparative anatomy, embryology, antibiotic resistance, vestigial organs, and even actual experiments done on E. coli, guppies, and fruit flies.

You can say "evolution" to anything you want. I say, it IS true that a butterfly "evolves" from a caterpillar to a winged butterfly.

So explain to me how the first creatures who "needed" very specific features in order to survive survived? They were still adapting to the planet. So how do birds evolve to grow longer beaks? How does genetics "know" that the bird needs a longer beak in order to survive? And apparently the original beaks were just fine because the species continued to live on to this day. Evolution claims that the original giraffes did not have long necks. How then did they survive without the proper features needed to survive? As anything evolves to protect itself from predators and consume food easier, so does everything else. The giraffe, according to the theory of evolution (which has definitely not in any way been proven, why do we have ape-like creatures from which we "evolved" from?), kept stretching its neck towards a tall tree where it needed to feed from. How did the original giraffes feed, and when they did, didn't the trees in which they fed on "evolve" to form some sort of defense? Anyways, over millions and millions of years the giraffes bred and bred until finally their necks got longer and longer. What were they feeding on for millions of years if they had been reaching for the top of a certain tree for all of those years?

Ask yourself, if someone has their arm chopped off, do they lose the ability to bear children who have two arms? Not at all, the arms won't even be deformed one bit, one would be a fool to think so. Evolution deals with every organism learning to "deal with their surroundings". If the water fowl developed clear vision in water over millions of years of "trying", how did they survive up to this day, and if they survived then, what would be the use of being able to see in water? Hows does genetics determine whether to give them this ability, and not something else "accidentally"?

There are many, many flaws in the argument of evolution--up next: "Survival of the Fittest" (this is more of a self-reminder for the next topic I want to talk about).

 

[Napalmbrain]

You can say "evolution" to anything you want. I say, it IS true that a butterfly "evolves" from a caterpillar to a winged butterfly.

So explain to me how the first creatures who "needed" very specific features in order to survive survived? They were still adapting to the planet. So how do birds evolve to grow longer beaks? How does genetics "know" that the bird needs a longer beak in order to survive? And apparently the original beaks were just fine because the species continued to live on to this day. Evolution claims that the original giraffes did not have long necks. How then did they survive without the proper features needed to survive? As anything evolves to protect itself from predators and consume food easier, so does everything else. The giraffe, according to the theory of evolution (which has definitely not in any way been proven, why do we have ape-like creatures from which we "evolved" from?), kept stretching its neck towards a tall tree where it needed to feed from. How did the original giraffes feed, and when they did, didn't the trees in which they fed on "evolve" to form some sort of defense? Anyways, over millions and millions of years the giraffes bred and bred until finally their necks got longer and longer. What were they feeding on for millions of years if they had been reaching for the top of a certain tree for all of those years?

Ask yourself, if someone has their arm chopped off, do they lose the ability to bear children who have two arms? Not at all, the arms won't even be deformed one bit, one would be a fool to think so. Evolution deals with every organism learning to "deal with their surroundings". If the water fowl developed clear vision in water over millions of years of "trying", how did they survive up to this day, and if they survived then, what would be the use of being able to see in water? Hows does genetics determine whether to give them this ability, and not something else "accidentally"?

There are many, many flaws in the argument of evolution--up next: "Survival of the Fittest" (this is more of a self-reminder for the next topic I want to talk about).

Alright, I can clearly see you don't know much about evolution. I think it would help if I explained the gist of it:

As everyone knows, organisms have DNA in their bodies, and this DNA is passed on to children. Every so often however, there is a mutation (a 'mistake' in the copying process). Most mutations are harmless and don't make any noticeable difference, while a few of them are bad, and a few of them are good. A good mutation can give that organism the edge over its competitors, which makes it more likely that that particularly will survive to reproduce and pass on the mutation (for example, the giraffe with a longer neck can reach food in trees which its competitors can't reach, so it's got more food to itself). This is natural selection, or as you might call it, 'survival of the fittest' (although I don't particularly like the term- any organism which lives long enough to reproduce is basically 'fit').

So no, evolution doesn't 'know' what an organism needs to survive, nor does it 'know' anything- it's just a process. Organisms gain their features at random, and those features that aid survival are more likely to be passed on to their children.

I know how some people like to talk about the intelligent design hypothesis, saying how some features are supposedly "too complex" to have evolved (usually without any quantitative measure of 'complexity'), so I'm going to pre-empt it. Intelligent design is bad science made up by people who don't have a clue about genetics or biology. For example, let's take the old creationist favourite, the eye. It's certainly tempting to think something so complex could only have been designed, but consider this: some eyesight is better than no eyesight. The first eyes to have evolved would have been incredibly primitive, barely letting you see how bright it was. But that's still better than not being able to see at all. Over time, some organisms evolved more and more complex eyes, allowing for directional vision, better focus, colour vision, etc.

 

[Shadow*91]

like Napalm said, it would ve random and the changes that helped eventually became permanent.

is it a perfect arguement? hell no cause we don't know enough but its the best arguement we have. and what points to any type of God? nothing. you can say its so complex there must've been a creater, but what proof do you use to back up your claim? nothing except your feelings and belief. you say there is a creater without offering proof, while we say evolution and can offer thousands of years of proof.

 

[Napalmbrain]

Guys, can we keep the evolution talk for that thread? I'll leave my responses about the subject there.

P.S.: Turk, I know you're just copy-pasting off some Islamic website.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

Guys, can we keep the evolution talk for that thread? I'll leave my responses about the subject there.

P.S.: Turk, I know you're just copy-pasting off some Islamic website.

I would like to have kept this on one thread too, only I couldn't be copying and pasting Signs that God exists off of the site I'm using :wink:

I never denied that I was using a web site, I just wasn't sure if I was allowed to post the web site where I'm getting it from. I have no problem admitting that I'm using someone else's work while giving them credit for it.

I don't think it'll get me banned if I post up the website, so here it is:

www.islamcan.com

In the "Signs of Allah" section.

Oh =D by the way:

The fly flaps it wings approximately 500 times per second while flying. In fact, no man-made machine could operate at such a rate, but would shatter and burn because of friction. However, neither the wings, muscles, nor the joints of the fly are harmed. Taking into account the direction and speed of the wind, it can fly in any direction without being diverted. Even with our current technology, man is very distant from producing a device with these extraordinary features and techniques of flight. Yet such an insignificant living being, which man brushes aside and pays no attention to, achieves something remarkable that man so far has been unable to achieve. It is God who has given the fly all its outstanding characteristics and abilities.

 

[her01771]

allah is kinda god with another name
or is it god is kinda allah with another name?
well, it doesn't matter. the important thing is that we believe in one god, and not in the evolution.

 

[Shadow*91]

@her0: Allah is the Islamic name for God

ok first off Turk, a watch is man-made. anything man-made can be traced to some creater.

but for the sun & earth thing. gravity. a simple arguement, gravity. during the time before life began on our planet, the earth was either too close or too far which prevented life. then something happened, likely meteor impacts, and pushed the Earth into the orbit we know today. this event also gave the earth its tilt, giving us the seasons.

once the ideal conditions were set up, life began to evole. first with single-cell organisms that pretty much evolved from nearly nothing. and from there came everything about life as we know it.

and you say the sunrise-sunset was 'created' to look beautiful. no that just happens to be how it happened. plus not everybody finds a sunrise/set beautiful. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, cliche but true. i personally don't care for the sun as i spend most of my days indoors. i'm more of a night person. the sun is just something that humanity needs to me. then again live in Arizona and your likely to develop a similar opinion


but this still goes back to what i said in my previous post, what proof do you offer? you could claim this stuff for twenty years but without any tangible proof, your arguements hold little standing.
we, on the other hand, are using science's proven laws and facts to argue. our arguments haven been proven through testing and debates before and they will now. we're using facts, your using feelings. you'll be hard pressed to win an arguement without proof, especially about something so controversial.

 

[her01771]

@her0: Allah is the Islamic name for God

I knew that already.

ok first off Turk, a watch is man-made. anything man-made can be traced to some creater.

but for the sun & earth thing. gravity. a simple arguement, gravity. during the time before life began on our planet, the earth was either too close or too far which prevented life. then something happened, likely meteor impacts, and pushed the Earth into the orbit we know today. this event also gave the earth its tilt, giving us the seasons.

once the ideal conditions were set up, life began to evole. first with single-cell organisms that pretty much evolved from nearly nothing. and from there came everything about life as we know it.

and you say the sunrise-sunset was 'created' to look beautiful. no that just happens to be how it happened. plus not everybody finds a sunrise/set beautiful. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, cliche but true. i personally don't care for the sun as i spend most of my days indoors. i'm more of a night person. the sun is just something that humanity needs to me. then again live in Arizona and your likely to develop a similar opinion


but this still goes back to what i said in my previous post, what proof do you offer? you could claim this stuff for twenty years but without any tangible proof, your arguements hold little standing.
we, on the other hand, are using science's proven laws and facts to argue. our arguments haven been proven through testing and debates before and they will now. we're using facts, your using feelings. you'll be hard pressed to win an arguement without proof, especially about something so controversial.

told you turk master.

 

[RPGMasterTurk91]

@her0: Allah is the Islamic name for God

ok first off Turk, a watch is man-made. anything man-made can be traced to some creater.

but for the sun & earth thing. gravity. a simple arguement, gravity. during the time before life began on our planet, the earth was either too close or too far which prevented life. then something happened, likely meteor impacts, and pushed the Earth into the orbit we know today. this event also gave the earth its tilt, giving us the seasons.

once the ideal conditions were set up, life began to evole. first with single-cell organisms that pretty much evolved from nearly nothing. and from there came everything about life as we know it.

and you say the sunrise-sunset was 'created' to look beautiful. no that just happens to be how it happened. plus not everybody finds a sunrise/set beautiful. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, cliche but true. i personally don't care for the sun as i spend most of my days indoors. i'm more of a night person. the sun is just something that humanity needs to me. then again live in Arizona and your likely to develop a similar opinion


but this still goes back to what i said in my previous post, what proof do you offer? you could claim this stuff for twenty years but without any tangible proof, your arguements hold little standing.
we, on the other hand, are using science's proven laws and facts to argue. our arguments haven been proven through testing and debates before and they will now. we're using facts, your using feelings. you'll be hard pressed to win an arguement without proof, especially about something so controversial.

Actually, Allah is simply the Arabic name for God, in which Muslims believe to be the formal name OF God. Ask a Christian Arab what he calls God in his church or language, and you'll see what I mean (yes, Christian Arabs refer to God as Allah).

Shadow, what I say in these posts ARE proofs that God exists, if you are able to see it. Your mind is completely closed--you have reached a conclusion you are unwilling to compromise. The existence of God isn't based on or doesn't require Him to write it in the clouds or show a miracle in front of your very eyes, alls you have to do is see it for yourself with an open mind. I mean, most people are born with a religion instilled or pushed onto them, I admire atheists' and the like willingness to do some extra thinking and all, but most if not all have deviated from the truth.

Ok, consider the ant:

Ants live in colonies and a perfect division of labor exists amongst them. When we take a closer look at their systems, we shall also see that they have a pretty interesting social structure. It will also come to our attention that they are capable of sacrifice at a much higher level than humans are. One of the most interesting points is that - compared to humans - they do not know the concepts such as the rich-poor discrimination and the fight for power that are observed in our societies.

Many scientists, who for years have been doing extensive research on ants, have not been able to clarify the subject of their advanced social behavior. Caryle P. Haskins, Ph.D., the president of the Carnegie Institute at Washington has this to say:

After 60 years of observation and study, I still marvel at how sophisticated the ants' social behavior is. ...The ants thus make a beautiful model for our use in studying the roots of animal behavior. (National Geographic, vol.165, no.6, p. 775)

Some colonies of ants are so extensive with respect to population and living area, that it is impossible to explain how they can form a perfect order over such a vast area. Therefore, it is not easy not to concur with Dr. Haskins.

As an example of these large colonies we can give the species of ant, called Formica Yessensis that lives on the Ishikari coast of Hokkaido. This ant colony lives in 45,000 interconnected nests over an area of 2.7 square kilometers. The colony, which is composed of approximately 1,080,000 queens and 306,000,000 workers, has been named the "Super colony" by the researchers. (Bert Holldobler-Edward O.Wilson, The Ants, Harvard University Press, 1990, p. 1.) It has been discovered that all production tools and food are exchanged in an orderly fashion within the colony.

It is very hard to explain how the ants have maintained this order without any problems, considering the vast area they are living in. We must not forget that various security forces are needed for enforcing law and maintaining social order, even in a civilized country with a low population density. And there is an administrative staff leading and managing these units. Sometimes, it does not become possible to maintain the required order without problems despite all these intense efforts.

Yet in ant colonies there is no need felt for police, gendarmerie or guards. If we consider that actually the duty of the queens, whom we think of as the leaders of the colonies, is just to maintain the species, they do not have a leader or a governor. There is thus no hierarchy based on a chain of command amongst them. Then who is it that lays down this order and maintains its continuity?

The fact that ants can establish such a great and perfect order is proof that they are acting on the inspiration of a certain "supervisor". The verse below fully confirms that God is the master and supervisor of everything and that every living creature acts on His inspiration:


Article 2


Examining the movement of the ant is thought provoking. It moves its infinitesimal legs in a sequential and extremely organised manner knowing perfectly which leg should take the first step and which the next. It moves very rapidly without faltering.

The Ant lifts crumbs much bigger than its body. It carries them to its nest with heart and soul. It travels distances that are very long in comparison to its tiny body. On featureless land, with no guide at its service, it can easily find its nest. Despite the entrance of the nest being too small even for us to find, it is not confused and finds it no matter where it is.

When one sees in the garden some ants, lined up one after the other, ardently toiling to carry food to their nest, one cannot stop wondering what kind of purpose these tiny living beings might have in working so hard. Then one realises that not only does the ant carry food for itself, but also for other members of its colony, for the queen ant and baby ants. How such a tiny ant, which does not even have a developed brain, knows diligence, discipline and self-sacrifice is a point on which one needs to reflect.

 

[Shadow*91]

just because of the lack of a scientific answer does not mean a God. that's essentially what your arguement has been. if humanity cannot explain it the it's because of God. with the ants for instance, you're basically claiming that since we can't behave thier behavior, its because of God. no its not. we just haven't figured it out yet.


and now your doing the same thing you did in the "Meta is broken" thread. your offeeing up your opinions as fact despite the evidence pointing otherwise.

 

[Napalmbrain]

Okay, I've moved most of the evolution stuff into the relevant thread (which wasn't easy, for some reason the 'move posts' feature isn't working properly). Please continue any discussion of it there.

 

[The Storm]

@her0: Allah is the Islamic name for God

ok first off Turk, a watch is man-made. anything man-made can be traced to some creater.

but for the sun & earth thing. gravity. a simple arguement, gravity. during the time before life began on our planet, the earth was either too close or too far which prevented life. then something happened, likely meteor impacts, and pushed the Earth into the orbit we know today. this event also gave the earth its tilt, giving us the seasons.

once the ideal conditions were set up, life began to evole. first with single-cell organisms that pretty much evolved from nearly nothing. and from there came everything about life as we know it.

and you say the sunrise-sunset was 'created' to look beautiful. no that just happens to be how it happened. plus not everybody finds a sunrise/set beautiful. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, cliche but true. i personally don't care for the sun as i spend most of my days indoors. i'm more of a night person. the sun is just something that humanity needs to me. then again live in Arizona and your likely to develop a similar opinion


but this still goes back to what i said in my previous post, what proof do you offer? you could claim this stuff for twenty years but without any tangible proof, your arguements hold little standing.
we, on the other hand, are using science's proven laws and facts to argue. our arguments haven been proven through testing and debates before and they will now. we're using facts, your using feelings. you'll be hard pressed to win an arguement without proof, especially about something so controversial.

Actually, Allah is simply the Arabic name for God, in which Muslims believe to be the formal name OF God. Ask a Christian Arab what he calls God in his church or language, and you'll see what I mean (yes, Christian Arabs refer to God as Allah).

Shadow, what I say in these posts ARE proofs that God exists, if you are able to see it. Your mind is completely closed--you have reached a conclusion you are unwilling to compromise. The existence of God isn't based on or doesn't require Him to write it in the clouds or show a miracle in front of your very eyes, alls you have to do is see it for yourself with an open mind. I mean, most people are born with a religion instilled or pushed onto them, I admire atheists' and the like willingness to do some extra thinking and all, but most if not all have deviated from the truth.

Ok, consider the ant:

Ants live in colonies and a perfect division of labor exists amongst them. When we take a closer look at their systems, we shall also see that they have a pretty interesting social structure. It will also come to our attention that they are capable of sacrifice at a much higher level than humans are. One of the most interesting points is that - compared to humans - they do not know the concepts such as the rich-poor discrimination and the fight for power that are observed in our societies.

Many scientists, who for years have been doing extensive research on ants, have not been able to clarify the subject of their advanced social behavior. Caryle P. Haskins, Ph.D., the president of the Carnegie Institute at Washington has this to say:

After 60 years of observation and study, I still marvel at how sophisticated the ants' social behavior is. ...The ants thus make a beautiful model for our use in studying the roots of animal behavior. (National Geographic, vol.165, no.6, p. 775)

Some colonies of ants are so extensive with respect to population and living area, that it is impossible to explain how they can form a perfect order over such a vast area. Therefore, it is not easy not to concur with Dr. Haskins.

As an example of these large colonies we can give the species of ant, called Formica Yessensis that lives on the Ishikari coast of Hokkaido. This ant colony lives in 45,000 interconnected nests over an area of 2.7 square kilometers. The colony, which is composed of approximately 1,080,000 queens and 306,000,000 workers, has been named the "Super colony" by the researchers. (Bert Holldobler-Edward O.Wilson, The Ants, Harvard University Press, 1990, p. 1.) It has been discovered that all production tools and food are exchanged in an orderly fashion within the colony.

It is very hard to explain how the ants have maintained this order without any problems, considering the vast area they are living in. We must not forget that various security forces are needed for enforcing law and maintaining social order, even in a civilized country with a low population density. And there is an administrative staff leading and managing these units. Sometimes, it does not become possible to maintain the required order without problems despite all these intense efforts.

Yet in ant colonies there is no need felt for police, gendarmerie or guards. If we consider that actually the duty of the queens, whom we think of as the leaders of the colonies, is just to maintain the species, they do not have a leader or a governor. There is thus no hierarchy based on a chain of command amongst them. Then who is it that lays down this order and maintains its continuity?

The fact that ants can establish such a great and perfect order is proof that they are acting on the inspiration of a certain "supervisor". The verse below fully confirms that God is the master and supervisor of everything and that every living creature acts on His inspiration:


Article 2


Examining the movement of the ant is thought provoking. It moves its infinitesimal legs in a sequential and extremely organised manner knowing perfectly which leg should take the first step and which the next. It moves very rapidly without faltering.

The Ant lifts crumbs much bigger than its body. It carries them to its nest with heart and soul. It travels distances that are very long in comparison to its tiny body. On featureless land, with no guide at its service, it can easily find its nest. Despite the entrance of the nest being too small even for us to find, it is not confused and finds it no matter where it is.

When one sees in the garden some ants, lined up one after the other, ardently toiling to carry food to their nest, one cannot stop wondering what kind of purpose these tiny living beings might have in working so hard. Then one realises that not only does the ant carry food for itself, but also for other members of its colony, for the queen ant and baby ants. How such a tiny ant, which does not even have a developed brain, knows diligence, discipline and self-sacrifice is a point on which one needs to reflect.

First off Turk, what Shadow told you is correct. You offer absolutely no proof for a God existing. these are entirely circumstantial at best, and we have not figured it out yet. You remind me of some of those people that think just because they cant explain why something is the way it is, it must be because of god. Wrong. People have thought things like this for thousands of years... And they continue to be proven wrong.

Examples:

Why do we have thunderstorms: Because God is angry at us. Wrong, it has been explained scientifically and makes perfect sense.

Why do we have tornados: Because God is angry, and so they named tornados originally as "the Finger of God" because it reaches down from the heavens and destroys all in its path, thus incurrin god's fury. Wrong. We know its because of warm and cool air chasing eachother, which we can break down even further to being because the atoms arte attracted to eachother to fill outer energy levels and blah blah blah more chemistry talk.

Where is Heaven: Up in the clouds? Nope, proven wrong again. We know what forms clouds and why theyre there, there is no mystical city nor pearly gates at the top awaiting the good hearted souls of the damned.

Where is hell: Obviously, if their is a heaven their has to be a hell. It was thought before that hell resided deep in the earth under its crust in the magma and flames. Fals false false. No hell their, and sure as hell (lol as hell) there is no devil there. We know what lies in the earth.

Why do we have droughts: Because God is punishing us. lmao... that one gets me everytime.

I can give you countless reasons why your wrong Turk. Whether its droughts, or storms, or heaven and hell, or sins or commandments or "magic" or the "will of god" or any of that stuff... It can all be proven wrong, and proven reality through fact. Some things we do not understand yet, but the only reason truly religious people still are around and have "faith" is because they know they are getting proven wrong and so they use God as a scapegoat for things they know we cant explain yet. So, basically, your grasping at straws, because you know you have no ground left to hold onto. Logic and reason are beating you to a pulp.

btw... lol... No insult to you, but cant you come up with facts and replies on your own? Its kinda sad when your loosing the battle so badly and you have so little proof that you actually have to use another website to talk for you because you yourself have no response. :lol: