Codemasters CEO Doubts Wii Sustainability, Envisions 'Wii 2'

[T3kNi9e]

Yup, you're right. Thats one of the biggest problems, advertisment.

But you say they will have no choice because Wii will have the controlling market share. But, I think even then it wont happen. Atleast, not in a bigger sense. I think only a few will. Because its not like a strike where they end up having to make a compromise because even though they controll alot its basically like 360+PS3 is one console vs the Wii. So you make it on the 360+PS3 instead of the Wii and still gain more profits because Wii does not advertise 3rd party games properly nor do they sell because most Wii owners are what? Casual gamers...

 

[smyth]

The biggest problem is advertsising too...

nintendo pushes its own titles like crazy.... yet how many game commercials do you see that are intended for 3rd party Nintendo titles? hardly any... they complain about game sales for 3rd party, yet how many good 3rd party games have even been made for Wii?

they make crap games because there sales suck, there sales suck mostly because they didnt advertise the game twards nintendo in the first place, but twards the other 2 systems, So now they dont see the reason to invest into a big title fo nitnendo platform

Its there own snobbery and Fanboysism thats going to hurt them...

The Few good 3rd party titles have sold well on Wii, the fact is there is so few good 3rd party games on the Wii because developers are use to Nintendo being the kiddy system... They never made a Good 3rd party game in the first place.. you cant complain about it if you dont even try... And some copy of a big title that works for another console isnt going to cut it... Design it for the Wii or dont bother...

When a Game like RE5 makes it to the wii the same time as the other 2 consoles, not months after, then they will have an argument.

The fact is because nintendo does not bid for exclusive games, and ontop they do take more profit from 3rd party sales then the other 2 systems... The 3rd party doesn't even try on nintendos system, they havent for years...
but now they kinda have to because nintendo has the contorlling market share...

if they make 10 dollars per game on 360/ps3
and only 8 dollars per game on Wii which is better?
thats something they have to decide for themself... sell games that get you more profit with less audience, or less profit with more audience?

But we will see big change in 3rd party companies, and it will be based on who takes on that question and decides whats best...

i actually meant to point out the lack of 3rd party ads in my last post but by the time i posted it i had already forgotten about it. haha

completely agree though, for instance if heatseaker was actually a good game lets say average rating of at least an 8 among the big review sites. Well yeah that'll help sell the title... to a point. But if i don't know about the title how do they expect me to buy it?
It's like they want nintendo to make crap games so theirs look better by comparision(the bride's maid syndrome) and on top of that they want nintendo to advertise for them...

i am an insurance agent, one of our companies is Progressive, who also sell direct instead of through an agent. i don't expect them to do a crap job so i look better, nor do i expect him to pay for an ad in the newspaper advertising my business. But that sounds like what this guy wants.


kyle

 

[iOwnage]

The biggest problem is advertsising too...

Exactly. People wonder why Zach and Wiki didn't get good sales. Hmmm.. I haven't seen one ad for the game, yet they expect everyone to automatically know about it.

 

[smyth]

Exactly. People wonder why Zach and Wiki didn't get good sales. Hmmm.. I haven't seen one ad for the game, yet they expect everyone to automatically know about it.

exactly, i can develop the greatest game in the history of video games but if i don't tell you about it how do i expect you to buy it?

 

[T3kNi9e]

So who's fault was it that Zack and Wiki didn't sell?

 

[wezeles]

Yup, you're right. Thats one of the biggest problems, advertisment.

But you say they will have no choice because Wii will have the controlling market share. But, I think even then it wont happen. Atleast, not in a bigger sense. I think only a few will. Because its not like a strike where they end up having to make a compromise because even though they controll alot its basically like 360+PS3 is one console vs the Wii. So you make it on the 360+PS3 instead of the Wii and still gain more profits because Wii does not advertise 3rd party games properly nor do they sell because most Wii owners are what? Casual gamers...

Ps2 was and still is mostly casual gamers... it had controlling share of last market and got plenty of sales... why? not alot of 1st and 2nd party games... but then again you couldnt go 5 minutes watching t.v. without seeing a ps2 3rd party game commercial...

3rd partys are responisbal for there own adds.. not the company that makes the console....

but i think your right its going to be split.. 360/ps3 vs. Wii

the bad thing is this is going to Hurt ps3/360 sales even more... t
hey only have but a handfull of exclusive games... When it comes to 3rd party games ps3/360 fight for exclusivity.

highest bidder takes the game for the first 3-12 months.. how can you do that in a joined war agenst Wii? first they arnt going to have the kinda money they normally do to get exclusive games... and ontop of that your gonna try to convince a 3rd party game to make it exclusivly for you for the next 3-12 months and only be available to at most 30% of the market?

Granted a few will take this deal, but like i said we will see alot of change in the 3rd party world and its going to be based on decisions like this...

 

[wezeles]

So who's fault was it that Zack and Wiki didn't sell?

Capcom's of course... i didnt even know about Zack and Wiki untill i saw it online... i should have seen it on t.v. or heard it on the radio far before that...

The Biggest market is the Casual gamer, they dont look online for game reviews, or have 3 or 4 gamming magazines show up to there door, or spend an hour or 2 wathing G4 or equivalent "specialty" show. you have to advertsie in the real world to get real sales...

 

[smyth]

So who's fault was it that Zack and Wiki didn't sell?

apparently the consumers because we didn't know a damn thing about it. haha

 

[T3kNi9e]

But are developers or publishers the ones who pay for TV ads? I actually don't know for sure. But I was thinking Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo pay for it.

The reason I think its Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo is because developers cannot afford to do it. They come to the publishers for money. Maybe Publishers can pay, but even then I don't know. Maybe they go half and half? lol

 

[wezeles]

alot of times its half and half... they will throw a ps3 commercial into a game add.., im sure you have seen this setup lots of times.. game commercial followed by a big ole ps3/wii/360 ending

developers pay for nothing... nothing... but manpower making the game and basic company bills... publishers pay developers to come out with games under there nameplate...
from there publishers take this finnished game to the console companys and ask if they want it..

if its good enough Console companys pay to make it exclusive to there console... if not it will get the basic go ahead, and the publisher will make the games for all the consoles that want it...

basic breakdown

50 dollar game..

20 bucks publisher
20 bucks console license fee
5 bucks pay developer
5 bucks for game and packaging..

so its up to console companys and the publishers to join together and take a little less profit and put it into advertising and marketing...

 

[smyth]

But are developers or publishers the ones who pay for TV ads? I actually don't know for sure. But I was thinking Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo pay for it.

The reason I think its Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo is because developers cannot afford to do it. They come to the publishers for money. Maybe Publishers can pay, but even then I don't know. Maybe they go half and half? lol

from my understanding its usually the publisher(which is sometimes the same as the developer, i.e. EA) or it's a kind of co-op, like sony for instance will pay for a commercial, and maybe Rockstar or something will pay to have their game shown in that commercial, so basically the cost gets reduced for both parties.

that's my understanding of it.


kyle

 

[T3kNi9e]

are you sure about that wezeles? After looking at the $50 break-down it brings me back to an article I read on the Xbox Magazine talking about the same thing, breaking down why games cost $60. One of the reasons was advertising. So maybe Nintendo isnt charging for advertising so thats why they dont advertise 3rd party games.
-------------Long pause seaching for magazine----------------
Okay I found it, let me break down what Xbox has:

Retailer Cut: $12
Microsoft Licensing and Manufacturing: $12
Marketing (This is it): $7
Development Costs: $20
Publisher Overhead: $9
Total: $60

So obviously Wii's is a bit different seeing as its only $50. I guess development costs are lower, or maybe its only slightly lower with no Marketing costs. I believe Nintendo is supposed to market it. But maybe they dont charge marketing so they dont market games unless its 1st party. I think the only non party 1st game marketed was Rayman 2. But maybe Ubisoft did it themselves because they knew Nintendo wouldnt? I duno.

 

[wezeles]

Very possibal... but of course Nintendo doesn't set the price of 3rd Party games... the 3rd party does... And they also dont market it unless they think it will benefit them aswell.. usually its a joint aggrement

But when nintendo 1st party titles sell for 50 bucks and are considered the best in the nintendo lineup, how can you expect to charge 60 bucks for your 3rd party title?

Nintendo has always been the best at keeping there prices lower then the competition... But now you have a 3rd party publisher that isnt willing to take that kinda cut in profit they are use to with the other consoles and they tend to stay away... proving the point nintendo doesnt get the same 3rd party titles and if they do they usually are cheep knock offs or ported games months later...

 

[T3kNi9e]

No, I dont mean to sell it for $60, im just wondering if in that $50 is marketing cut to make sure they can advertise games. I think games like No More Heroes deserves to be marketed, especially since they took the time to make a quality game instead of some mini-game bundle.

I think the main reason why its still $50 is not because Nintendo wants to, but i think its because Nintendo can because since the graphics are lower, its easier to develop, so its alot cheaper. So they can sell at a lower price. Because in 360 the main reason for the $10 boost in cost was because of development and research. So im guessing original Xbox was $10 to develop a game unlike $20. So im guessing Wii only spends $10 in development. But I wonder if maybe they dont spend $7 in marketing and spend it on something else, like maybe licensing?

 

[wezeles]

i have never Seen an exact breakdown of price for nintendo games... atlast not in a few years...

i do know they take a bigger license cut than any other console "thats also why alot of 3rd partys have stayed away from nintendo"... so your right there they take some extra cash from 3rd party...
Development cost is probably like you said about the same as an xbox/ps2... these programmers could techinically make the games on there old equipment... they dont have to buy new HD stuff just to design a game so thats saves a ton of money... on the development side of it, no overhead for HD graphics

so just based on that lets try to figure it out... we know for a fact Nintendo 3rd party gets very littel Add space i would say atleast half if not less than compared to xbox/360

ninendo games in the states go for 50 dollars initial for almost all of them 49.99 with a few cheeper mini games and stuff down the line

So a 3rd party is trying to squeeze this into the common 50 dollar price tag to compete with nintendo titles

so at a price of 49.99 per title

"added 2 bucks see above" not sure specifics
nintendo liceses and manufacturing fee................. 15.00
keeping wiht 360 breakdown, publisher overhead.... 9.00
Development cost that matches power standards ...10.00
retailer cut..........................................................12.00
money left over for advertisment............................ 3.99
Giving you a grand total of ...................................49.99

so they have nearly half the money for marketing as any other system... what will nintendo do to fix this? will they help them out and cut down on the license fees a bit ? like they should anyways in my opinion, its has always hurt them...
they make a couple bucks more now so it doesnt hurt them if sales arnt great.
when if they took the risk on the game and advertised it proper they could have made alot more.... but at there own risk...

Eaither that or 3rd partys will have to take less profit and toss it into ad's for the same risk... rely on selling more in bulk to make the money instead of selling the few they do sell with little advertising if any at all...

thats why at most you seem to see a mixed add... game and console add into 1 add... they dont want to waste what little cash they have.... "or atleast wont let go of it"