Christians

[LyricistSoldier]

Ok, even if you dont believe in absolute truth. What do u do when someones "truth" is completely opposite yours? Whose "truth" is to rule over the other? If one person believe that a killing was a "mercy killing" and the other believes its murder... how do u decide who is right? Yeah maybe the circumstances according to you say its murder but maybe the circumstances in his eyes based on how he has learned from life was a "mercy killing". What do you do then? Is there punishment? How is justice made?

See no absolute real truth, means no order, no purpose, no meaning to life.

 

[Brawny]

The main reason is that the title of the thread is "Christians" so that's mainly why it's mainly the views of Christianity here.
And far more people here are familiar with the Bible than with the Koran. And the Torah is just the first five books of the Bible, and there have been quotes from those.

Torah has different meanings, first, the first five books included in the Bible but worded differently sometimes and has some things left out or added. Second The first five and other writings from God-inspired people. Last, All of these including certain rabbi's interpretations of them.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Also one cannot call themselves a christian and not believe in absolute truth. For christians beleive that God is the absolute truth. So for them to not believe in absolute truth then they do not beleive in their own god.

You should have made that your first statement, not your last in that response because I am not christian.

If there is not absolute truth then you have no reason to be in this thread debating me. If there is no absolute truth then no one can beleive what u say to be true. The whole ideal of relativism (which is what you have) destroys the whole reason for a debate to begin with.

^Opinion.

Also you are wrong, plain and simple everyone will tell you that. Past and Future exists.

That's your opinion. Your speaking in absolutes, right and wrong. You may find what I'm saying to be wrong, but that's just you.

Its a proven truth and therefore fact. If all written history of a past event or peoples were wiped out... yea maybe there is no "hard evidence" that they/it existed but that wouldnt change the fact that if they/or it really did live/occur.

Ha, did I say what happened in the past never happened or did I say the past really can't be proven if those people involved died and info about that past wiped out? We both know it's the latter. I know for sure yesterday was a snow day and I know a few months ago I got a Wii and I don't deny that the Vietnam War happened and that the Nazi killed thousands of Jews in the Holocaust. What I'm saying is if people/info involved in that were destroyed, then you couldn't prove it happened, but you better believe I know all those things I mentioned happened. My point was that you can't go back to the past through any medium, be it written, photographed, videotaped or spoken by someone that was there. Past events aren't still happening in some place we can venture to in a time machine or worm hole or what have you. It's just memory. At the same time, I know the definition of future. However, you are getting a bit mixed up in that you believe everything will happen logically. Most of the time, everything does go according to plan, but sometimes, it doesn't. Sometimes you say to yourself "I'm going to watch the evening news." You sit down on your couch, turn on the TV at the right time and expect to see the news, but this time you see nothing! "What's happened," you exclaim. You call the cable company and they say "We say there's some interference on the line at your house; sorry you have to miss the news." The future is just a prediction, not an actual time you can travel to and visit your future friends and enemies.

Also "the past" is differnt than one event IN the past. "Future" is just a word to describe the time that will come. You cannot deny that this current time will be replaced by another, threfore u cannot deny that future exists. For future is the time that will replace current time.

Yes, and that time is called the present. We don't live in "future time," we live in the present time. You don't know that in the next minute this world won't implode or an atomic bomb won't detonate and everything will be dust, do you? Sure it's not logical, I don't believe it will happen, but you know it is possible.

Am i wrong? i think we just pulled a full circle. I disproved your reason the first time, i've just said the same thing in a different way.

I could give you my opinion, but that's all it would be: an opinion. It may be wrong for me, but right for you, thus there's no absolute truth about your comments. Now, if you were to say there are 30 seconds in a minute, technically, I could say that is wrong, but you could retort and say "well, I want 30 seconds to be called a minute, so that's what I'm calling it." And there's nothing I could do about that because it doesn't matter, it's just a human concept that doesn't mean anything to any other mammal, to our earth, to the rest of the universe.

I like that you are thinking deep and asking questions. First, the length of a minute does chance based on speed. You know, the atomic clock in a fighter jet experiment?

Could you give me the gist of this experiment? I'm actually really interested about it because I think I have an idea of what you're talking about and that would change things a bit. Sorry, I should probably know about it, but I don't.

I do agree with you on rape and horrific deformity but for people that want to abort a mentally handicapped person imo is just wrong. Many handicapped people contribute to the world. I'm talking about stupid people just having sex for fun and when the actual purpose of sex happens, they freak and kill a baby that could've lived to be a great person in the world. At least put them up for adoption.

Ah, I see where you're coming from and I agree. If two irresponsible people have sex and conceive a child, I do not believe they should be allowed to use abortion as a form of birth control. I'm only for abortion in the rare occasions I've mentioned. However, you also have to remember the quality of the foster care system. Don't mean to assume you're American, guess I do because I am, but anyway, in America, foster care is rather horrible. Kids can be picked up by all types of creeps, some seeking a slave, other seeking the money they'll get from the state for adopting and their screening process for parents is rather weak. I'm not saying irresponsible people should abort, but people who used all the types of contraception and that happened to become pregnant and neither can provide for that child and the only other option being foster care, which can ruin kids in many ways, you can understand why some abort. It's not a simple yes or no answer and that's a good thing, I believe. I wish there weren't any abortions, but then I would be wishing that rapers didn't exist and disabled children couldn't be conceived, none of which can be cured.

 

[Brawny]

Could you give me the gist of this experiment? I'm actually really interested about it because I think I have an idea of what you're talking about and that would change things a bit. Sorry, I should probably know about it, but I don't.

2 atomic clocks essentially same exact time. Put one on supersonic jet, other on ground. After jet lands compare the 2 and the jet one is a few seconds slow. Doesn't seem like much but the clocks dont loose a second in 1 million years.


Ah, I see where you're coming from and I agree. If two irresponsible people have sex and conceive a child, I do not believe they should be allowed to use abortion as a form of birth control. I'm only for abortion in the rare occasions I've mentioned. However, you also have to remember the quality of the foster care system. Don't mean to assume you're American, guess I do because I am, but anyway, in America, foster care is rather horrible. Kids can be picked up by all types of creeps, some seeking a slave, other seeking the money they'll get from the state for adopting and their screening process for parents is rather weak. I'm not saying irresponsible people should abort, but people who used all the types of contraception and that happened to become pregnant and neither can provide for that child and the only other option being foster care, which can ruin kids in many ways, you can understand why some abort. It's not a simple yes or no answer and that's a good thing, I believe. I wish there weren't any abortions, but then I would be wishing that rapers didn't exist and disabled children couldn't be conceived, none of which can be cured.

Yes, I am american and yes, the foster care system is poor in certain cases (certainly not the majority though). I am saying that to prevent all of these circumstances, just don't have sex unless you actually want a baby.


I kinda have to go study for Chemistry and American Lit exam tomorrow. Love debating on this forum though. sry to leave you hanging.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Yes, I am american and yes, the foster care system is poor in certain cases (certainly not the majority though). I am saying that to prevent all of these circumstances, just don't have sex unless you actually want a baby.


I kinda have to go study for Chemistry and American Lit exam tomorrow. Love debating on this forum though. sry to leave you hanging.

I'm sure you'll contribute even more when you have a chance. Don't worry about it. Glad you're a friendly debater. Talk to you later.

Also, the things I said handicapped kids, I only meant severely handicaped and even then, that's questionable. If someone has a sound mind, but are just slow, then of course they should be allowed to live life to the fullest. I'm talking more about people who would only be immovable vegetables and the like, but again, it all depends on the person.

 

[Gaz]

hmm is that why straight people get married. I dont think you can make that assumption, Gaz :/

It depends, if people love each other, it's like the last step of a relationship.
But, there are also financial gains to getting married, so it's 50/50

 

[DBloke]

Heres the thing.
I'm NOT religious.
But I still help out at the local church (at jumble sales church dos and stuff).
The Vicar knows im not religious but he still asks me to help out.
I'm always on the door (dodgy area).

Mind you some say I do look like a bouncer if I put on a suit

 

[Gaz]

I like that you are thinking deep and asking questions. First, the length of a minute does chance based on speed. You know, the atomic clock in a fighter jet experiment?
I do agree with you on rape and horrific deformity but for people that want to abort a mentally handicapped person imo is just wrong. Many handicapped people contribute to the world. I'm talking about stupid people just having sex for fun and when the actual purpose of sex happens, they freak and kill a baby that could've lived to be a great person in the world. At least put them up for adoption.

Right, what if those two people are still at school, about to take there GCSE's, they don't have a job, and there parents are poor, what should happen? they both drop out of school to look after the baby, be living on jack crap, have no future as they have no califications of the lowest kind, and then the what could be genius won't be, as they can't afford to look after him. OR they could get an abortion, and the baby won't even know it lived, the two kinds get GCSE's. go on to A-levels, and then on to UNI, they get married after that, and have great jobs, then have a boy genius.

 

[Deathmetalmaster]

Fetus makes for good eatin'


yumm

 

[DBloke]

Slight question to all non religious posters

Do you still get stuff for Christmas

 

[LyricistSoldier]

However, you are getting a bit mixed up in that you believe everything will happen logically. Most of the time, everything does go according to plan, but sometimes, it doesn't.

Take a positive and negative molecule. They will attract one another for such is the law of physics. Is that not an absolute truth? Unless you believe that somehow u can throw our world upside down and change that fact (which would destory all matter as we know it) then i have just shown you an absolute truth.

Relativism is based on one person having a truth that fits their own personal experience of the world or, their knowledge. If another man of greater knowledge than that of another lower intilectual claims a truth that contradicts his truth. It doesnt mean that the lower intilectual ever knew the real truth or was right in his thinking. He was wrong. He can act according to his knowledge and not be blamed for it, but it still does not make him right.

Take it like this, i say cars are only red, no other color car exists. But you say that isnt true because you have seen a yellow car. That does not make us both right just because I have never seen a car other than red. Being ignorant is no excuse to claim that your truth is real. Taking what i have said... truth is truth, it cannot be changed or molded based on ones personal perceptions.

 

[Brawny]

Right, what if those two people are still at school, about to take there GCSE's, they don't have a job, and there parents are poor, what should happen? they both drop out of school to look after the baby, be living on jack crap, have no future as they have no califications of the lowest kind, and then the what could be genius won't be, as they can't afford to look after him. OR they could get an abortion, and the baby won't even know it lived, the two kinds get GCSE's. go on to A-levels, and then on to UNI, they get married after that, and have great jobs, then have a boy genius.

Did you even read my post all the way through? Adoption!! yah, i'm adopted, i'm sure glad that I wasn't ripped out of my mothers uterus with a forceps. I wouldn't be able to see the downfall of sony!

If those kids had such a bright future, they shouldn't be risking it by having sex.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Take a positive and negative molecule. They will attract one another for such is the law of physics. Is that not an absolute truth? Unless you believe that somehow u can throw our world upside down and change that fact (which would destory all matter as we know it) then i have just shown you an absolute truth.

Relativism is based on one person having a truth that fits their own personal experience of the world or, their knowledge. If another man of greater knowledge than that of another lower intilectual claims a truth that contradicts his truth. It doesnt mean that the lower intilectual ever knew the real truth or was right in his thinking. He was wrong. He can act according to his knowledge and not be blamed for it, but it still does not make him right.

Take it like this, i say cars are only red, no other color car exists. But you say that isnt true because you have seen a yellow car. That does not make us both right just because I have never seen a car other than red. Being ignorant is no excuse to claim that your truth is real. Taking what i have said... truth is truth, it cannot be changed or molded based on ones personal perceptions.

OK, now I realize I misunderstood the argument. I thought you were arguing that there is nothing but absolute truth, when really, there are some absolute truths, like your molecule example, or even simpler, 2+2=4, and there are a just as many, if not more relative truths, a good example being when we say "Hey, look up at those stars." Really, there is no absolute up and down, just relative up and down. We are really saying "Hey, look outward from the center of earth at those stars." There is no up or down in space, in the universe.

Now all the confusion makes sense. So just to get this straight, you agree that there are both absolute and relative truths, right?

 

[Gymdawg]

Slight question to all non religious posters

Do you still get stuff for Christmas

That has always bothered me. I hate how the general population seems to destest Christians so much and yet they celebrate our holidays. Everyone does the "easter bunny" and "santa" crap regardless of their beliefs, why? Because they've defaced the holidays to the point where there's no longer any religion to them. It's really not fair to us.

 

[NateTheGreat]

That has always bothered me. I hate how the general population seems to destest Christians so much and yet they celebrate our holidays. Everyone does the "easter bunny" and "santa" crap regardless of their beliefs, why? Because they've defaced the holidays to the point where there's no longer any religion to them. It's really not fair to us.

Oh give me a break! You do realize there are more than 1 billion Christians in this world and growing right?

How Many Christians Are There?

There are eighty-five main Christian denominations. These denominations make a distinction between Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians. There are 1,026,501,000 Roman Catholics and 316,445,000 ** Protestants in the world. Most Catholics are Roman Catholics; there are 60,018,436 ** in the United States. Protestants in the U.S. number 42,513,059 as of 1997. **

What is the second largest Christian denomination in the United States? The Baptist Church is the leader with 23,929,356 members. ** Next in numbers are the United Methodist Church and the Presbyterian Church.

Source

There are hundreds if not thousands of churches in the U.S. as well (sorry to assume you're American; I'm American too, fyi). Oh and our freaking president and vice president as well as countless other political leaders, are christians as well.

Oh, the poor, misunderstood, christian.:cryin: Must be tough, huh?

Also, Christmas was originally a pagan holiday. Then christians learned of it, took the pagan tree and made it a christmas tree. Yes, I celebrate xmas, not because I'm christian, but because I like the tree, I like receiving and giving presents, I liked the idea of Santa, though I no longer believe in him. Why do you care so much if non-christians celebrate holidays, some of which christians basically ripped off of other spiritual groups?