Wii's Momentum To Last Until Ps3 is Under $300?

[.:josh:.]

PS3 is going no where but slimmer and and a diff color.

 

[Caliko]

Ok listen, im sorry for what I said about you.I just went berserk because I dont like people calling me a Idiot.You have the right to correct me.
Truce?

EDIT:I just wanna be friends not enemies,ok?
My trash talk was my exusted way of saying hello,when i wrote that comment i came back from sakteboarding.

TRUCE. Dude It's cool. Appologizing is the manly thing to do. It should be like this all the time.


Now to stay on topic, I think if Nintendo doesn't increase their hardware productivity it leaves a wide gap for PS3 and 360 sales. Expect a HIGH increase in sales after March due to SSBB. I honestly think that's one of the reasons why they pushed the game back to meet hardware demand. What do you think??

 

[WiitnessID]

360 ends up costing a few bucks more than a Wii, if even that when its said and done.. the Wii starts out cheep with alot of pricey add ons same as xbox 360 arcade version, its only 30 bucks more but in the end a completed system is the same cost i would say... once you figure in memory cards/hard drives and controllers

problem is ps3 starts higher and its controllers cost just as much so its in no way "cheeper" than the other 2 systems, not to mention the fact they are taking the biggest profit loss...

As you manufacture something the more you make the cheeper it is to make, Thats why 360 did the first price drop they have been out longer and have sold a fair amount to be able too improve manufacturing cost and inturn be able to drop the price..

Wii has made even more units than 360 but in half the time so they probably havent found a cheeper way to really build it yet running at full speed just trying to keep up. But with how many parts they are probably ordering now in bulk, the price difference in that alone they could safely drop the price down to the 199.99 mark by this comming christmas same for 360 i would say

ps3 on the other hand isn't dropping in manufacturing cost, because it hasn't made enough units and the price of making them hasn't gone down enough to be able to do this.
They are dropping price just to compete with the other 2 systems.... They already take the biggest hit in profits all this will do its put them further in the red...

Honestly with all the dumb moves sony has made over the years im suprised they are still as big as they are... they need to take a breath pay attention and just make money for once if they dont catch up they will be gone soon...

Actually the PS3 is costing sony about $400 to make last time I heard. This is where the talk of a price drop stems.

 

[rukus]

well. when ps3 becomes cheaper, and its time to buy a blue-ray player, then i def. will buy a ps3.

 

[wezeles]

Actually the PS3 is costing sony about $400 to make last time I heard. This is where the talk of a price drop stems.

never seen that, where are you getting this info? Post a link...
sony has released various cost on each system... and the best one cost about 550 to make... meaning the current 400 dollar system still looses 150 per unit.. its about the same for every version 125-175 dollars lost per unit... untill more are sold and the cost of parts drops and productivity increases this price isnt going to change much...

ive work in manufacturing before... cost only goes down with the amount of raw parts are more ample and purchased, and over time as production is made more effiecent.. They are too early in the game to be reaching this stage... 360 is hitting this area right now Being out 2 years and not selling a console for way less than production cost...The Wii will get there fast just because of the amount sold, they are buying parts in bulk.
But i bet the struggle to keep up with demand meaning making more manufacturing facilitys or converting old ones will probably null any cost cutting they may reach with mass amounts of sales in short time frame... still they atleast make money now even without a cost drop yet..

unless sony is lieing about there cost per unit, which i doubt they are based on there own earnings report and stock, They will not make money off the PS3 console or even break even for that matter, for atleast another 2-3 years.
Unless they pull something outta there butt and start selling like crazy... They might do another price drop, but it will be just to stay in the game and try to compete... hopefully they have enough good games to sell and enough people purchasing consoles to make up for this loss on consoles itself...

 

[WiitnessID]

never seen that, where are you getting this info? Post a link...
sony has released various cost on each system... and the best one cost about 550 to make... meaning the current 400 dollar system still looses 150 per unit.. its about the same for every version 125-175 dollars lost per unit... untill more are sold and the cost of parts drops and productivity increases this price isnt going to change much...

ive work in manufacturing before... cost only goes down with the amount of raw parts are more ample and purchased, and over time as production is made more effiecent.. They are too early in the game to be reaching this stage... 360 is hitting this area right now Being out 2 years and not selling a console for way less than production cost...The Wii will get there fast just because of the amount sold, they are buying parts in bulk.
But i bet the struggle to keep up with demand meaning making more manufacturing facilitys or converting old ones will probably null any cost cutting they may reach with mass amounts of sales in short time frame... still they atleast make money now even without a cost drop yet..

unless sony is lieing about there cost per unit, which i doubt they are based on there own earnings report and stock, They will not make money off the PS3 console or even break even for that matter, for atleast another 2-3 years.
Unless they pull something outta there butt and start selling like crazy... They might do another price drop, but it will be just to stay in the game and try to compete... hopefully they have enough good games to sell and enough people purchasing consoles to make up for this loss on consoles itself...

Hold on I'm gonna have to dig this one back out of my cache!

Ok here you go I though every one knew this!

Analysts Applaud Efforts to Shrink PS3 Chips

Stringer's promise to raise Sony's overall margins to 5% by the Mar. 31 fiscal yearend appears easily within reach. And margins should continue to improve as Sony's video-game division, Sony Computer Entertainment, trims the console's manufacturing costs and revs up output.

Nikko Citigroup's Kota Ezawa estimates the games division will lose $1.4 billion this fiscal year, following last year's $2.1 billion loss. And while he doesn't expect the business to be prosperous until late 2009, Ezawa applauds Sony's efforts to shrink the PS3's chips and tweak its design. Already such changes have cut the cost per machine to around $400 now, from above $800 just before it went on sale in November, 2006, he says. (The PS3 with an 80-gigabyte hard-disk drive retails in the U.S.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2008/gb2008018_681920.htm

I mean really how long it's been like this is unknown but if it has been like this for a while then I'm sad to say people really where suckered on the price of this system in the beginning. See this is why competition is good the truth has to come out some time! Just like when every one finally said the PS2 was the weakest system.

You've worked in manufacturing well I look at how it's all structured. From watching the tech industry as a whole Nvidia is no joke! They are like pimps man they want their money or they will cut you!...LOL Just ask MS during the xbox 1 life cycle(owned and pimped by Nvidia). Even though production cost went down for nvidia they still charged MS for the full amount and made made money off of them. I suspect this is happening to SONY once more since I don't think SONY is in charge of fabing the RSX chips and they are trying to sell off their own cell chip fabs ... hey I lost track did that ever happen? Well any way If you notice the articule states the chip sizes where reduced...LOL it says nothing about blue ray diodes or the cost reduction in the blueray, but maybe they are talking about chips that run the blue ray which where suppose to be the cell right< LOL So they are now saying that the cell was over priced 400 dollars... Now hold up a 400 dollar GPU was a 8800 GT what ever and a core duo at that price crushes lots of chips? So the cell should cost more than the FP beast that is the 8800? WOW help me here but logic is failing me in why people should pay more for some thing unproven, I know I know the cell is new and different but no one buys a itanium any more because it's new a different...LOL The xbox's 3 cores are different too and you can see the results today!

Hey I've been saying it since it came out the price of blue ray is just to make up for R&D...LOL those are not production costs...LOL Sony has done this since the netamax, those nice trintrons! and mini disk players and apple is the only people who get away with it...LOL

 

[ls1foxbody]

if you do a search you will find 1,000 of pages where production cost was cut in HALF to 400 $ now.and you dont cut costs by buying more supplies,you cut them when technology is increased and your chip or cell /gpu etc is now less to make i.e. 90 to 65nm and then it will get cheaper again from 65nm to 40 and so on.how do you think that overall in a consoles life or any other CE device that they can make them smaller or as sony calls them slimmer.its not because they are getting supplies cheaper but because technology is allowing them to make them cheaper by making them smaller.1 reason the 360 price drop HAS NOT come is because they are still at 90nm.sony is at 65nm right now as 1 of the reason cost has been cut.i will post a couple links for you but its not hard to find out that its 400$ to make the ps3.if you want more links google "ps3 production costs"

http://www.techpowerup.com/index.php?49483

http://www.digitalbattle.com/2008/01/12/ps3-production-costs-down-50-in-a-year/

 

[WiitnessID]

Where there goes the whole they are giving you blue ray thing...LOL

Sony giveth and taketh out of your pocket! All night LONG!

 

[wezeles]

Hmm so in the last few weeks they have announced that they got the price down to 400 bucks...
And that they will be making a profit by the end of 2009... so 2 years from now they will make back the cash they have lost in intial cost... That is if they dont do more price drops and keep it at the 400-500 range of course.... still good news for them... not as far in debt as they started, still debt though...

Its not just the acctual chip size that makes these systems expensive to make, its the fact they use prototype chips and new everything else for that matter.. chips that are not yet mass produced...
The reason they pay so much in the beggining is they have to pay off the R&D and prototype cost of every aspect of the console... from the plastic case its in to all the electronics inside... overtime all of them get cheeper because its no longer a prototype price but a massed produce price...

Say it cost 20 million dollars to design, prototype and build a launch console... That cost doesnt go away it cuts into your profits for the life of the system..
so not including acctual supply cost and manpower cost...if you sold 1 million units at 20 bucks each you made no money at all.. 40 million means you made 20 million so on and so on... over time they make money by making more systems even if they didnt change anythign else... these numbers are varried by even more cost or savings added on durring the life of the product as in cheeper supplies, or the cost of another manufacturing facility to keep up with demand... its basic manufacturing... you dont make money till you pay off intial cost...

Eaither way if Sony keeps this pace of price dropping right along with cost reductions they are never going to get outta the RED in console sales they still will rely on game sales and accessories.

 

[ls1foxbody]

massed produced?the cell is only in the ps3 so its not massed produced as you say.i dont understand where you get this from.also the plastic case is not massed produced either along with the gpu and other items.prototype is something you see at say e3 when there showing you the next console,not something thats in the mainstream you can buy.the reason it becomes cheaper is because price comes down due to being able to manufacture chipsets/gpu's smaller there for costing less intern let you able to make your CE device smaller and using less power etc.and FYI the r&d on the ps3 was a loan and was in the 3billion dollar range,WHICH was written off as a loss the first fiscal year the ps3 was launched.so no they are NOT worried about the r&d but making money off there software and hardware.you seem to forget sony's game division does not just make ps3 but psp which is doing very well along with the amazing ps2 which (i will have to grab the #'s on) makes sony a TON of money because it takes near to nothing to produce

 

[sremick]

massed produced?the cell is only in the ps3 so its not massed produced as you say.i dont understand where you get this from.

I don't understand where you get your facts from. I quote:

"Mercury Computer Systems has a dual Cell server, a dual Cell blade configuration, a rugged computer, and a PCI Express accelerator board available in different stages of production. Toshiba has announced plans to incorporate Cell in high definition television sets. Exotic features such as the XDR memory subsystem and coherent Element Interconnect Bus (EIB) interconnect appear to position Cell for future applications in the supercomputing space to exploit the Cell processor's prowess in floating point kernels. IBM has announced plans to incorporate Cell processors as add-on cards into IBM System z9 mainframes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor

The Cell processor is a joint project between Sony, Toshiba, and IBM. It is not just a PS3 thing, even if the PS3 was the first device to use it.

 

[ls1foxbody]

everything you JUST posted refers to the future not the present where yes your right there WILL be cell in those things and more but right now PS3 is only cell based ce device. as it says"in different stages of production" and "Toshiba has announced plans to incorporate Cell in high definition television sets" .so yes in the future you are right but right now sony's ps3 is it.everything you posted just made my point.all that is in the future .

 

[sremick]

Perhaps you don't understand what "mass produced" means. For companies like Mercury and IBM to already have products based upon the cell processor, someone's producing them "in mass" for general use.

You obviously didn't read that site very carefully:

"In the fall of 2006, IBM released the QS20 blade module using double Cell BE processors for tremendous performance in certain applications, reaching a peak of 410 gigaFLOPS per module. These modules are expected to be a part of the IBM Roadrunner supercomputer that will be operational in 2008. Mercury and IBM uses the fully utilized Cell processor with 8 active SPEs."

So you have been able to buy computers using Cell CPUs since 2006. Want to buy one today?

http://www.computers4sure.com/product.asp?productid=5639969
http://www.techdepot.com/pro/product.asp?stchg=1&productid=5639969
http://www.colamco.com/store/product/detail.aspx?product=650802

More products:
http://www.mc.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe...d=661&query=cell&hiword=CELLBASED CELLS cell
http://www.mc.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe...d=987&query=cell&hiword=CELLBASED CELLS cell

Seriously, don't go mouthing off about something you know nothing about. Admit you're wrong like a man and move on...

 

[ls1foxbody]

funny those links you posted are not the same CELL that is in the ps3 OWNEd!! FAILZ!!and id love to buy 1 but it seems they are all MYSTERIOUSLY out of stock on all the links you posted..hmmmmmmmmm..and who said i was a MAN?

 

[wezeles]

I dont think you understand, in manufacturing prototype isn't just the first single complete item made to show off at E3... they consider the launch of any electronics prototypes for the first 6 months to a year, becase assembly is a new concept aswell as the parts and tools to make the units... they do not know if something will need to be changed in the future because of a flaw that has yet to be found. Therfore its considered "prototype"

And yes every part is unique that was my point. You have to understand for the plastic case they had to build a bunch of plastic injection tools to even make the case, these tools can cost 30,000 up into the millions easy per tool! look at a tear down of a ps3 how many individual plastic pieces does it have? now figure they have atleast 2 or more of each tool incase of damage or increase demand.. adds up quick... not to mention the million dollar machines these things run in.

Then they need a tool to make each board and robots to install each part onto the board, and eventually down the line some human hands to put these all together... now granted the human aspect probably wont change much except maybe the amount needed to assemble a unit over time.. alot of times they will have say 8 people put an electronic item together, one for each part assembled at the "prototype stages" to make sure there are no errors.
but over time they can drop that down to as low as 4 people doing 2 pieces each after assembly technic is perfected. Alot of times they have devices built to limit the chance of miss assembly in the future "see poke yoke"

But this initial cost of building tools,R&D,trial and error never goes away it always effects overall profit and can only be shrunk down with acctual amounts of units sold not just making the parts cheeper... the second they come out with a new smaller version they affect overall manufacturing cost but they then have all new tools and the process starts over again... In manufacturing you have to balance all these different cost aspects and try to figure out how to be profitable... or in Sonys case how to break even....

I've worked in enough manufacturing fields to know how it works, not just read geek weekly on Chip production... For a few years I work with building Bose Stereos and DVD players... Getting to play with there million dolalr tools and i can tell you exactly why they loose money for the first few years... Its not something i read about its something i did as a career...

In my opinion a price drop is a dumb idea considering there current sales, but honestly they have to take the risk now or risk getting knocked out for good this round... Its not that they dont have the money to do it... Its the fact they keep burning it up like news paper, the second they even get a hint of profit they throw it away... Im glad im not a stock holder...