Wii in danger of repeating the Gamecube?

[T3kNi9e]

When is the Wii not selling at it's peak?

The software numbers are also for the PSP, PS2, and the PS3.
So, 3 systems from Sony vs 2 systems from Nintendo.

Your argument at the start just stated that Wii was number 3 in software. Because you didn't specify that you were including the PS2 in those numbers, poster called BS on your post. By the numbers and only include the current consoles, the PS3 is in a distant 3rd for software and hardware sales. By this February there will be twice as many Wii's selling per quarter than both the 360 and PS3. The software sales will reflect the greater number of consoles.

Okay this will be my last response to the sales, because you're not really paying attention and dont want to admit things.

Wii has been selling alot of hardware because of its price. The Wii comes with games when you buy it. That sales chart is counting both software+hardware riiight? So therefor Wii will be higher. Because in my previous post I stated that the hardware sales are negating Wii's poor software sales. So if your going by NINTENDO SALES (Both hardware+software of Wii+DS) then its obviously giong to be higher than PS3 failing sales, PS2 older system and PSP. Im talking about SOFTWARE alone. If you still dont get it, then just forget it because I no longer want to discuss it.

 

[Bliss]

The only reason none of these "good games" were never released on the gamecube is because publishers couldn't justify the cost to port the game over. No publisher is stupid enough to develop a game for the gamecube, some games would almost require 100% of gamecube owners to buy the game to make a profit.

exactly wat i was about to say...

the gamecube died from launch date, there wasnt enough money to be made with it

 

[T3kNi9e]

The only reason none of these "good games" were never released on the gamecube is because publishers couldn't justify the cost to port the game over. No publisher is stupid enough to develop a game for the gamecube, some games would almost require 100% of gamecube owners to buy the game to make a profit.

But it doesnt have to be a ported game. Im not talking about porting a god of war game to gamecube or something. Im talking about the fact that not even Zelda (Nintendo Made) is as good as God of War.

Also like I said, you can see in 3rd party games like Madden 08, Live 08, etc. Look the same on Wii+PS2 but look better on PS3+Xbox. Why not up the graphics for Wii? Obviously it wont look as good as Xbox or PS3, but it certainly should look better than the older PS2, especially if Gamecube was superior.

 

[Bliss]

But it doesnt have to be a ported game. Im not talking about porting a god of war game to gamecube or something. Im talking about the fact that not even Zelda (Nintendo Made) is as good as God of War.

Also like I said, you can see in 3rd party games like Madden 08, Live 08, etc. Look the same on Wii+PS2 but look better on PS3+Xbox. Why not up the graphics for Wii? Obviously it wont look as good as Xbox or PS3, but it certainly should look better than the older PS2, especially if Gamecube was superior.

but see the thing about that though the PS2 (which i love) is stil makin games and everyone knows wat it can do and how to do it...wat im sayin is the gamecube wasnt really given its shot...it was doomed for failure and we all know nintendo wouldnt put out a title like god of war..a 3rd party would had to have done it

 

[largedarry]

But it doesnt have to be a ported game. Im not talking about porting a god of war game to gamecube or something. Im talking about the fact that not even Zelda (Nintendo Made) is as good as God of War.

Also like I said, you can see in 3rd party games like Madden 08, Live 08, etc. Look the same on Wii+PS2 but look better on PS3+Xbox. Why not up the graphics for Wii? Obviously it wont look as good as Xbox or PS3, but it certainly should look better than the older PS2, especially if Gamecube was superior.

Games will always look better on PS3 and 360, its called 1080 + AA + AF. The video processors make good use of AA, and in some more recent games HDR. This has nothing to do with why a Wii and PS2 game look the same. Multi-platform games always use the same engine. Same engine = same graphics (with some extra touches that graphic processors add).

As for nintendo game, they don't appear to use 3rd party graphics engine (at least to my knowledge). If nintendo started to design games with the gamebro graphics engine, the games would look similar to GoW 1. This is nintendo's style, and I don't think they will change.

3rd party companies use these graphics engines because it makes development quicker and cheaper. There is nothing stopping the Wii from making games that look better than the PS2 (except multi-platform game developers).

EDIT: damn you got that comment out fast bliss

 

[T3kNi9e]

Yea I know all about graphic engines n stuff. I also know Nintendo's style. But its clear when you see Zelda, they were leaning more into graphics unlike there previous titles. Even though God of War uses a certain graphic engine and Wii wouldnt release a game like that, doesnt mean other titles cant make a graphic engine as good. Look at 360 for example. Assassins Creed vs Mass Effect, both great graphics. Mass Effect uses Unreal Engine III, Assassins Creed uses some other thing. Just because it doesnt use Unreal Engine, doesnt mean the graphics cant be as great. So my question is why don't game developers develop a game using God of War engine? Its not like they cant. People use other game developers engines all the time. Maybe Wii CAN make graphics look great, but so far no one really knows that for sure. Because it hasnt been done. Maybe its not Nintendo's fault, maybe game developers dont give a rats ass about Wii gamers. To me, it seems like game developers put there red headed step childs to work on Wii games. For example, Ubisoft has some decent games such as...

Rainbow Six Las Vegas
Ghost Recon 2
Enchanted Arms
Assassins Creed

Now obviously these games cant actually be on Wii. But, the point is, they are capable of making some good games. So, why is it when Ubisoft develops games for Wii, its either Multiplatformers that do worse on Wii/GC or they suck completely? Like....

Nitrobike
My Word Coach
Blazing Angels (Worst rating on Wii)
Red Steel (some people like this, but overall game is rated mediocre)
Kabookii
Rayman Ravin Rabbids (Same as redsteel)
Petz Dogs/Horsez/Catz (What the fuk?)
Splinter Cell Double Agent (Rated worst on Wii)

Okay, so best games were Red Steel, Blazing Angels, Rayman and Splinter Cells, yet all are mediocre on Wii.

Now, I duno about Gamecube being better than PS2, but I do think Wii is better than PS2, if not, then Nintendo really ****ed up somewhere. Point is, why the hell does Wii get stuck with the stupid titles, or the dumbed down versions? When they do make a Wii game, why are the graphics always so bad? They always look like Playstation 2 games with Wii controls. This time on Wii, there are less 3rd party games than Gamecube and this time the Wii has sold ALOT more. Blame Nintendo, Blame Game Developers, I dont really know whos fault it is, but its gay either way.

 

[Bliss]

Yea I know all about graphic engines n stuff. I also know Nintendo's style. But its clear when you see Zelda, they were leaning more into graphics unlike there previous titles. Even though God of War uses a certain graphic engine and Wii wouldnt release a game like that, doesnt mean other titles cant make a graphic engine as good. Look at 360 for example. Assassins Creed vs Mass Effect, both great graphics. Mass Effect uses Unreal Engine III, Assassins Creed uses some other thing. Just because it doesnt use Unreal Engine, doesnt mean the graphics cant be as great. So my question is why don't game developers develop a game using God of War engine? Its not like they cant. People use other game developers engines all the time. Maybe Wii CAN make graphics look great, but so far no one really knows that for sure. Because it hasnt been done. Maybe its not Nintendo's fault, maybe game developers dont give a rats ass about Wii gamers. To me, it seems like game developers put there red headed step childs to work on Wii games. For example, Ubisoft has some decent games such as...

Rainbow Six Las Vegas
Ghost Recon 2
Enchanted Arms
Assassins Creed

Now obviously these games cant actually be on Wii. But, the point is, they are capable of making some good games. So, why is it when Ubisoft develops games for Wii, its either Multiplatformers that do worse on Wii/GC or they suck completely? Like....

Nitrobike
My Word Coach
Blazing Angels (Worst rating on Wii)
Red Steel (some people like this, but overall game is rated mediocre)
Kabookii
Rayman Ravin Rabbids (Same as redsteel)
Petz Dogs/Horsez/Catz (What the fuk?)
Splinter Cell Double Agent (Rated worst on Wii)

Okay, so best games were Red Steel, Blazing Angels, Rayman and Splinter Cells, yet all are mediocre on Wii.

Now, I duno about Gamecube being better than PS2, but I do think Wii is better than PS2, if not, then Nintendo really ****ed up somewhere. Point is, why the hell does Wii get stuck with the stupid titles, or the dumbed down versions? When they do make a Wii game, why are the graphics always so bad? They always look like Playstation 2 games with Wii controls. This time on Wii, there are less 3rd party games than Gamecube and this time the Wii has sold ALOT more. Blame Nintendo, Blame Game Developers, I dont really know whos fault it is, but its gay either way.

everything u said is everything that i have said in like 10 pages:lol: ..idk, im basically tired of talkin about this is in this thread, i've stated my opinon and based it by facts in however many pages are in the thread.so im done and i stand by wat i said..PS3 is for me :lol: and i love the wii as well but the 3rd party developers better step up...and Nintendo better wake up and come to understanding that they have a series chance to blow this out the water if the can get it right....enough said

Bliss

 

[raisinghelen]

Now, I duno about Gamecube being better than PS2, but I do think Wii is better than PS2, if not, then Nintendo really ****ed up somewhere. Point is, why the hell does Wii get stuck with the stupid titles, or the dumbed down versions? When they do make a Wii game, why are the graphics always so bad? They always look like Playstation 2 games with Wii controls. This time on Wii, there are less 3rd party games than Gamecube and this time the Wii has sold ALOT more. Blame Nintendo, Blame Game Developers, I dont really know whos fault it is, but its gay either way.

Ubisoft is a lazy developer, a lot of their games are very average (including the overhyped Assassins Creed by most reviews).

In terms of actual hardware, the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2. The Wii is also more powerful than the Gamecube. I read in a developers blog that the gap between PS2 and Wii should be as big as the gap between Wii and 360/PS3, if the developer really puts in the effort. The reason why Wii graphics look more akin to PS2 though is because the PS2 still sells, so its cheap and easy to port games with little or no improvement (kind of like the 360 and PS3 situation as well). Nintendo themselves (as usual) are the ones who are raising the bar with games like MP3, SMG and SSBB that do actually look better than last gen and its up to 3rd parties to match them.

The lazy developers got away with it the first year (Wii first year titles are actually great compared to what the PS2 or 360 got) but they cant in the next one, or else their rush jobs wont sell while games by developers who do put in the effort (such as Capcom or Atlus) will sell.

Im not sure where you get the idea that third party support for the Wii is less than the Gamecubes, thats just crazy talk. :crazy:

 

[CantGetAWii]

Gamecube dished out RE4, which looked great. StarFox games were decent visual wise.

Wii has put out good games like Galaxy and Metroid. Don't think Ps2 can pull off those.

 

[romj]

Hardware specs isnt always what makes the machine. That would be more obvious Playstation 3 makes that very evident. Boasting a very high spec machine that does the same thing xbox 360, xbox 360 has been said to be better by game developers. Some game developers (like Valve) even say PS3 is a waste of time. So just because you have the specs, doesnt make it better.

And I know gamecube wasnt able to make a game like God of War, neithe did the original Xbox, but they had games like Half-Life and halo 2 that looked great. Gamecube had Zelda at the end of its cycle and it doesnt compare to God of War. Remember, it doesnt have to be a Action Adventure for graphics to be good. Look at Madden 08 on Wii, look at Madden 08 on PS2, looks the same. Anyway, so far Wii hasnt put out a game that PS2 can't do. BUT, PS2 has put out a game that Wii hasnt been able to do with GoW.

What you and others here are describing is your preceived ideas of the power of both machines based on the quality of the games for each. But what you forget is that the PS2 have been on the market for almost a decade and the developers never saw it as a child's toy, but a valid games machine, so they put their best efforts into devlopment for it from the beginning. Now there are games engines that have been optimized to pull out the very best from the PS2. Example, God of War.

With the wii, there are no optimized games engine for it, and it was dismissed as a serious games machine by most, if not all developers from the moment it was anounced, so they didn't even try to make one. That is why even PS2 games look better than most games on the wii. This increases the preception that it is weaker that it really is because there is no real effort to optimize the hardware to its fullest potential. In the end, it comes down to the fact that a games machine is as good as the games made for it, not how powerfull it is. Why, because preception is everything in this buisness!

 

[romj]

everything u said is everything that i have said in like 10 pages:lol: ..idk, im basically tired of talkin about this is in this thread, i've stated my opinon and based it by facts in however many pages are in the thread.so im done and i stand by wat i said..PS3 is for me :lol: and i love the wii as well but the 3rd party developers better step up...and Nintendo better wake up and come to understanding that they have a series chance to blow this out the water if the can get it right....enough said

Bliss

I stand with Bliss on this one.

You said what I and Bliss have been saying for ages! It IS because the developers don't give a Rat's Ass about wii gamers! And all of us should be mad as hell at being taken for dumb shits! It is as if each and every one of us were spat on and Nintendo was kicked in the balls and than spat on.

I want Nintendo to get good and ANGRY about how developers are treating their flagship product. I want Nintendo to put their foot down and say, "NO MORE OF THIS CRAP! You make something decent for us or don't make anything at all!" Cuz in the long run is is us consumers who are being taken for a ride by these half assed developers!:mad5:

And you know what esle, I think these developers have no nuts! The wii could represent a challenge to them, a platform on which they could show their true skills as a games developer! Yes it would prove more difficult to make a good game for the wii with good graphics, but I know it can be done. It can be done with art direction and style, look at Okami for the PS2. Look at Metroid for the wii and now look at Super Mario Galaxy! Good games CAN be made for the wii, DESPITE the fact that is vastly underpowered compared to the 360 and the PS3! Them saying it is too weak to be taken seriously is nothing but an excuse in my book!

 

[T3kNi9e]

Sadly Nintendo doesn't seem to care. It was bought up to the Senior Vice President of Marketing over at Nintendo and he didnt actually give any good comments on it.

GI: As you’ve said before, you’re targeting a different audience this holiday. The Wii has been out for a year, and as a whole it seems as though the company has released more casual games than hardcore games in the past. The hardcore has gotten Zelda and Metroid, Mario and Paper Mario in a year’s time, but that’s one per quarter. The hardcore Nintendo gamer who’s been your following for the past 25 years or so seems to be left in the dust for this new target demographic. Do you have any comments on that?


Harrison: Certainly, it’s not our intention to leave any customer behind. We’re working on core franchises—as you mentioned, we launched with a Zelda title, Paper Mario came in the winter and Mario Galaxy launched this week. That’s a great game. One of the things we’re trying to keep in mind is you can also have these games appeal to the expanded audience. So, we think a game like Mario Galaxy is a classic from Mr. Miyamoto. It’s intriguing, easy to get started on and very challenging to finish. So the novice gamer can get started and enjoy it, but the core gamer will have a real challenge to finish it. We’re trying to balance both of those. Part of that is trying to make sure that we have more third-party support than we did on GameCube and they have the confidence to bring some of their best titles and innovation on our system.

Basically all he says is that they're not trying to make so little hardcore games. He claims they want to balance casual over hardcore which seems to be far from the truth. Either that or they're not trying hard enough. He says they're trying to focus on getting more 3rd-party games but so far all the 3rd-party games have been crap for the most part. Japan is making games for there consumers, but Americans arent stepping up on the Wii.

 

[romj]

Sadly Nintendo doesn't seem to care. It was bought up to the Senior Vice President of Marketing over at Nintendo and he didnt actually give any good comments on it.


Basically all he says is that they're not trying to make so little hardcore games. He claims they want to balance casual over hardcore which seems to be far from the truth. Either that or they're not trying hard enough. He says they're trying to focus on getting more 3rd-party games but so far all the 3rd-party games have been crap for the most part. Japan is making games for there consumers, but Americans arent stepping up on the Wii.

What I got out of that is that Nintendo seems to be settling for crap because they may think that crappy third party support is better that NO third party support: And that is a mistake that will haunt them for a long time, and my have already doomed the wii to failure!

The sad thing about that is that the wii is number one in sales right now, they are back on top after getting the stuffin beat outta them for two consecutive generations! That don't have to settle for ****!!

I have been a Nintendo Nut for a long time and I have never felt as disapointed in them as I do now. It hurts me that by settling for poorly made games on the wii and by inference, it is expected that we, the consumer settle for this garbage too. The best thing for us to do, who are unsatified with what is being offered on the wii, is to get and enjoy a games machine that IS being taken seriously, and by inference, it's customers.

Namely the 360 and the PS3.

 

[T3kNi9e]

You know whats really messed up. I dont think it will haunt them until possibly next gen console :/ Their sales are so through the roof in hardware that they will probably go the same direction for a long time. Its POSSIBLE when the next-gen releases that people may decide not to buy it because of the quality of games they put out. Atleast, the more hardcore gamers. Then again I could be wrong.

 

[romj]

You know whats really messed up. I dont think it will haunt them until possibly next gen console :/ Their sales are so through the roof in hardware that they will probably go the same direction for a long time. Its POSSIBLE when the next-gen releases that people may decide not to buy it because of the quality of games they put out. Atleast, the more hardcore gamers. Then again I could be wrong.

Nintendo may have lost sight of the real porpose of selling hardware, that is to sell their GAMES to play on the hardware because without GOOD SOFTWARE the wii is nothing more that an expensive paperweight!

I hope they recover their vision before it's too late, because I really love their games! The gaming would just wouldn't be the same without them...