What's this amazing confirmation you have, anyway? No offense, but I don't recall you being that much into competitive Pokemon. If your argument is that it preforms poorly, yes, it isn't a good Pokemon, I agree.
Pokemon X/Y
- Thread starter DBloke
- Start date
Tragonight
God-Slaying Vanguard
The fact that I'm not competitive is proof in itself. I've faced casuals using it, and it fails to do anything besides waste 1 PP of an opponent's move.
More in-depth, I faced my cousin using it. My cousin doesn't EV train, disregards natures, stat-boosting moves, Egg moves, and IVs, and she doesn't even know most of what type is good against what type. My Jolly Ariados, EV'd in Speed, with Sticky Web, Toxic Spikes, and priority Sucker Punch, held nothing against her. Every time I sent it out first, it died first. And no, it's not just luck, I asked her to switch around her Pokemon's order so that a different one hit Ariados every time. OHKO'd. Every. Single. Time. If I can't even get out a Sticky Web, what good is the spider? And Focus Sash might stall for it, but one Sticky Web isn't worth an entirely team slot. Alright maybe it is with Sucker Punch's priority afterwards but I still don't think it's good at all.
More in-depth, I faced my cousin using it. My cousin doesn't EV train, disregards natures, stat-boosting moves, Egg moves, and IVs, and she doesn't even know most of what type is good against what type. My Jolly Ariados, EV'd in Speed, with Sticky Web, Toxic Spikes, and priority Sucker Punch, held nothing against her. Every time I sent it out first, it died first. And no, it's not just luck, I asked her to switch around her Pokemon's order so that a different one hit Ariados every time. OHKO'd. Every. Single. Time. If I can't even get out a Sticky Web, what good is the spider? And Focus Sash might stall for it, but one Sticky Web isn't worth an entirely team slot. Alright maybe it is with Sucker Punch's priority afterwards but I still don't think it's good at all.
There's your first problem.
Eeeh, it can be, depending on your team and the options available. Ariados doesn't do much besides set up Sticky Web and die. But if it lacks competition in the lower tiers, it has a few things over some of the other weak users of the move. It has better typing and attack power than Masquerain, as well as priority. Yeah, Masquerain is better in general, but Ariados does have a few perks. It beats Kricketune in basically every way but speed, which is pretty much the only thing the poor beetle has going for it. Unlike Shuckle it can actually attack, which is useful.
If you're playing NU and you need Sticky Web for a strategy you're using, depending on what's available in the tier, Ariados might not be a bad choice to set it up. Does Sticky Web, Baton Pass, Sucker Punch, Megahorn etc make it a good Pokemon? Far from it. But I believe that it's enough to not be classified as "horrible", at least in NU and possibly RU. Really doubtful about RU.
Tragonight
God-Slaying Vanguard
baton pass ariados lol
How the hell does that strategy work out?
How the hell does that strategy work out?
Meh, it doesn't seem like a good idea. It was a good idea in Gen IV when you could Baton Pass Spider Web, but it doesn't work anymore. I guess you could use Agility and Baton Pass that, but if you're using Ariados you're using it for Sticky Web, which already helps with whatever speed issues your team may have. It also requires a fast EV spread which you just saw me criticize. Not entirely sure why I mentioned it.
It could see use on one of those weird Baton Pass teams, I guess, but there are better Pokemon for that job. Especially when passing speed boosts makes Sticky Web largely pointless.
Actually, thinking about it some more, it can be useful to get a frail Pokemon into battle, since Ariados will usually be going last. It would get competition for a moveslot, naturally. [strike]gets you away from mega gengar if you decide to use ariados in ubers too[/strike]
It could see use on one of those weird Baton Pass teams, I guess, but there are better Pokemon for that job. Especially when passing speed boosts makes Sticky Web largely pointless.
Actually, thinking about it some more, it can be useful to get a frail Pokemon into battle, since Ariados will usually be going last. It would get competition for a moveslot, naturally. [strike]gets you away from mega gengar if you decide to use ariados in ubers too[/strike]
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Tragonight
God-Slaying Vanguard
Ariados isn't necessarily bulky enough to be able to pass off any stat boosts. And yes, the Speed issue I mentioned earlier.
Ariados is a frail Pokemon in itself, only good for Sticky Web and Sucker Punch. The latter not even being that good on it.
Again, the bad defense. My other EV for Ariados was HP, which failed as horribly as its Speed did.
Ariados is a frail Pokemon in itself, only good for Sticky Web and Sucker Punch. The latter not even being that good on it.
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I was thinking it would be useful if you weren't sure whether or not the opponent is going to attack Ariados. They could set up on it if they can take Megahorns. In such a scenario, you might not want to leave in Ariados if you're afraid of them setting up, but at the same time, you don't want to switch one of your more valuable Pokemon into the line of fire. Use Baton Pass, and if Ariados dies, well, it dies. You can then proceed to bring in a counter unscathed. If they set up, you can also bring in a counter unscathed, while retaining the spider's life.
It's nothing amazing, but it's indeed worth consideration.
It's nothing amazing, but it's indeed worth consideration.
Tragonight
God-Slaying Vanguard
Bleh, Sucker Punch is pretty nice against (Mega) Gengar. Not sure how Baton Pass can help besides running away.
That was a joke tho
I think the question is more about how much other Sticky Web users outclass it. Obviously Galvantula and Smeargle do, but I think all of them save Kricketune are generally better options. It depends on what tiers the other ones end up in. Galvantula and Smeargle will probably fall into OU, I'd think. Leavanny will probably be RU or UU. Shuckle might be RU or UU as well, but I think Leavanny is more likely. I feel like Masquerain, Kricketune, Ariados, and possibly Shuckle will be the NU Sticky Web users. Assuming this is true, I think, while outclassed to some extent by Masquerain and Shuckle, it has enough perks to warrant its use if you want to use Sticky Web.
As for how good Sticky Web itself is, I've heard mixed opinions, and I don't have much of an opinion myself. It's obviously useful, but I'm not exactly sure HOW useful it is at the moment. Especially in NU, which obviously hasn't been really established yet.
Tragonight
God-Slaying Vanguard
Shuckle is definitely a better option for Sticky Web, what with Sturdy ensuring it at least gets one out.
You're right about Galvantula and Smeargle, mostly because Galvantula generally has a wider movepool (don't even talk about Smeargle's) and a good typing. Of course Smeargle might make it to OU, as long as it's holding a Focus Sash.
Focus Sash is used more in X/Y, it seems. I never thought it would be this useful. I find myself putting it on several Pokemon at times too.
You're right about Galvantula and Smeargle, mostly because Galvantula generally has a wider movepool (don't even talk about Smeargle's) and a good typing. Of course Smeargle might make it to OU, as long as it's holding a Focus Sash.
Focus Sash is used more in X/Y, it seems. I never thought it would be this useful. I find myself putting it on several Pokemon at times too.
Contrary is better, imo, it's really hard to OHKO Shuckle with an unboosted attack. You might as well get the Evasion boosts from Defog, and potential defense/sp. defense boosts from Shadow Ball and co. You can also use Shell Smash with it, if you want.
But yeah, I agree that Shuckle is the better option over Ariados usually. Same with Masquerain, to a lesser extent.
Tragonight
God-Slaying Vanguard
Oh, right. My bad. I mistook Shuckle's defenses for 150 or something like that.
I think it'll gain more from Power Trick, if it has Sturdy. Unless you're planning for it to be really tanky, then I guess you could use Contrary/Shell Smash.
I think it'll gain more from Power Trick, if it has Sturdy. Unless you're planning for it to be really tanky, then I guess you could use Contrary/Shell Smash.
Power Trick Shuckle is ridiculously hard to use, but it would be hilarious if successful.
Apparently, if a sleeping Pokemon in the Battle Maison has Heal Bell, the AI will have it use the move until it wakes up. Was rather amused to see a Miltank wake up only to use Heal Bell.
Apparently, if a sleeping Pokemon in the Battle Maison has Heal Bell, the AI will have it use the move until it wakes up. Was rather amused to see a Miltank wake up only to use Heal Bell.
Splash_King
The Scrubbiest of Hunters
lol @ trusting the opinion of a non-competitive anything
karplol.jpeg
Incorrect. Depending on an opponent's team, Sticky Web can literally let you run away with a win.
I told 'em...
... Why'd Gamefreak nullify that? Is it broken for Baton Pass chains or somethin'?
I doubt Smeargle will ever drop below BL. As for Galvantula, probably.
Actually, Sash was used most often in the Generation it's introduction (DP). There was an old trend of "suicide leads", whose sole purpose was to get up Stealth Rock and then either die, or get off one other attack before dyin' (shoutout to Azelf). Then there were suicide leads like Aerodactyl which used their Speed and Taunt to prevent the opponent from gettin' up their own Rocks, then settin' Rocks up itself 'fore dyin'. The entire metagame was based around it for years. Pretty much every offensive team had a suicide lead, 'less they had a Poke with a free moveslot for SR by coincidence.
Back to the point I made earlier, if Rocks are worth a Poke dyin' for, then surely Sticky Web is as well.
I've always been somewhat confused why suicide setters are so popular even now. I mean, I get that they get hazards up really well, but they tend to be deathfodder otherwise. I understand that can be worth it, but I feel like most teams would be better off with a less specialized hazard setter. Something that sets up hazards almost as reliably, but does other things to notable effect. Like Ferrothorn.
Meh, I'm probably underestimating the strategy at least a little.
Meh, I'm probably underestimating the strategy at least a little.
Possibly for no good reason (read: Gems in Gen VI getting reduced to a 30% boost). If I recall, only Ariados and Smeargle could do it.
