Characters With Disadvantages / Advanatages Over Other Characters

[kingslayer]

Yes, even though me and Bodine were off topic, the conversations over... stay on topic, Yyy.

I have to admit that this is a little bad of you, CK. You and Bodine wasted 8 posts and yyy only wasted 1. It doesn't really bother me anyway, but I think you were harsher on him just because he was yyy. It would have been easy to ignore .

Anyway, hopefully this thread gets some real information I can use by the time I get back from my Spring Break trip.

 

[Shadow*91]

Well i also noticed that a distance character(anybody who can play decent 1on1 distance)has a advantage over olimar since he plays close range.

thats wrong. just being close doesn't mean distance is a weakness. Olimar is able to use the Pikmin Throw(→B) to both attack and sheild himself. its funny but if you throw a pikimn out then they can take missles, charge shots, grenades, arrows, bombs, mines, boomerang, anything. the pikmin take the hit instead which keeps Olimar safe while he closes the gap

 

[superbad81]

Well thank you kingslayer and yes shadow is the one who taught me that.

 

[kingslayer]

thats wrong. just being close doesn't mean distance is a weakness. Olimar is able to use the Pikmin Throw(→B) to both attack and sheild himself. its funny but if you throw a pikimn out then they can take missles, charge shots, grenades, arrows, bombs, mines, boomerang, anything. the pikmin take the hit instead which keeps Olimar safe while he closes the gap

Ya, but that can leave you open against a spammer (Pikmin run out). Though if their spamming... probably not that good anyway and you don't have anything to worry about.
Not sure about you put I like how the white ones disappear... looks cooler than the rest even if it's basically the same.

 

[Shadow*91]

in between throws you'd pull up more and move forward. he pulls up pikmin fast so its not a problem

 

[kingslayer]

in between throws you'd pull up more and move forward. he pulls up pikmin fast so its not a problem

Ya, but I was thinking of the player was good and used a fast character. While pulling up your vulnerable (albeit a very short time), which a pro can take advantage of by landing a running Side A on you. While you can dodge back, due to your limited recovery the opponent (if good) should be able to land a hit on you. I kind of wish that Olimar's B just popped out the max all at one time.

 

[Shadow*91]

Olimar can pull 6 pikmin in .6 seconds. he can then do any move without lag. the vulnerability frame is so small the enemy would have to be right next to Olimar to hit him fast enough.

 

[kingslayer]

Olimar can pull 6 pikmin in .6 seconds. he can then do any move without lag. the vulnerability frame is so small the enemy would have to be right next to Olimar to hit him fast enough.

Hmmm... now that I thought it through I see my reasoning was flawed. I was thinking of all these situations that become irrelevant due to one simple fact.

Sorry, I'm tired and I have to start a huge research paper... which I'm stalling/wasting my time right now. I see what you meant, now, but oh well.

 

[superbad81]

well since you guys know so much i want one input what if the character is fast marth.meta,etc.then they would beat olimar down when he pulls up a pikmin.

 

[Shadow*91]

unless a character has a speedy projectile that needs no charge(Falco) or they are literally right next to him, a skilled Olimar can get 6 pikmin and dodge fast enough.

at the same time though, a skilled Olimar always keeps 3-4 pikmin with him for defense at all times. if Olimar only needs to pull 1 or 2 then you won't catch him fast enough.

 

[kingslayer]

No, because Shadow was saying pulling up Pikmin as you throw them. This only takes 0.1 seconds... there is no time to land a hit with that. I was thinking of pulling out all the Pikmin at once (0.6 seconds) which is time for a medium range / fast character to land a hit on you (Meta's Side B, Samus' Running Side A, etc.).

 

[Splash_King]

I have to admit that this is a little bad of you, CK. You and Bodine wasted 8 posts and yyy only wasted 1. It doesn't really bother me anyway, but I think you were harsher on him just because he was yyy. It would have been easy to ignore .

Yes, it was bad of me. And yes, I was harsher on him because he's Yyy. It's obvious, isn't it?

Normally I'd give my opinion on Olimar, but... it seems the conversation's over. Ah well. You really know your Olimar facts, Shadow... 0.6 seconds is quicker than I thought he could pull all 6.

 

[The Storm]

Ok, nice posts people.

@ CK: Whats your opinion on the arguement (using that term loosely) Shadow and I had on Page 1? I would like your input, Grand Master Puuba. :lol: (noone is going to get the Puuba joke....[/facepalm])

 

[Splash_King]

They say the best referrences are ones people never get.

I was rushed/not interested in the thread earlier, but since you were wondering my input, I decided to read it over. I'll start with Lucario.

The main issue for Lucario was his matchup with Ness/Lucas', yes? A lot of focus was on Aura Sphere. Aura Sphere is integral for Lucario to rack up strings of attacks, edgeguard, and occasionally KO. A good Lucario player knows when to use his fully charged B though, against a good Ness/Lucas, he'd restrain from using it most of the time.

Infact, he can use it just as a spacer, rather than an offensive. Lucario gets a boost from Aura Sphere, but it's not necesarry for him to win a match, definatly not. Lucario is much better than Ness/Lucas, and can gimp them fairly easily, so his drawbacks on overusing Aura Sphere pale in comparison to how he can technically dominate the two. Lucario > PK spammers.


Now, touching apon Mario... FLUDD is indeed, useless. It's charge time make it unviable, and while it can be used as an effective edgeguard, it's useless in competitive play. A non-tippered B-air (as Shadow mentioned) is much more effective, so is a U-air. Even in their spare time after a KO (even a star KO), I've never seen a Mario player use FLUDD. It is effectively useless, really. He simply has better gimping options.

Mario is also low tier, even though he's average in most areas, his range is low, and his KO moves are reserved mostly to his smashes, and a rare F-air Meteor Smash (which they can probably recover from anyways). His best and easiest source of KOs is gimping, which can make him a bit unreliable. His lack of range also hurts his close combat abilities.

Luckily, his cape is his saving grace, as you previously mentioned, Storm. It prevents him from being the lowest of low tier, since it can help him tackle projectile spammers, and even gimp people. It really is a great move. One move isn't enough to throw him into middle tier, though.

Indeed, he is average; but to be more specific, slightly below average. In a whole he is average, but when summed up competitively, he is slightly below. Mainly because his faults leave him with a few more bad match ups than good, and his good match ups usually aren't the high/top tier characters.

Summed up, average but low tier.

 

[The Storm]

That was a great summary CK. Kingslayer, I beleive you can add that to your Mario spoiler on page one. I do love Mario's cape, as when fighting the common Mario vs. Luigi matchup against friends, that stupid cape reverses Luigi's side B completely...Its a good move, but I hate it when used against me Such is the way of the world.

So CK, you have gotten me curious... What's your summary opinion of Ganondorf? Since I main him, it is of great interest to me.